On 03/16/2017 03:00 PM, Doug Hellmann wrote: > Excerpts from Doug Hellmann's message of 2017-03-10 09:39:29 -0500: >> Excerpts from Doug Hellmann's message of 2017-03-10 09:28:52 -0500: >>> Excerpts from Ian Y. Choi's message of 2017-03-10 01:22:40 +0900: >>>> Doug Hellmann wrote on 3/9/2017 9:24 PM: >>>>> Excerpts from Sean McGinnis's message of 2017-03-07 07:17:09 -0600: >>>>>> On Mon, Mar 06, 2017 at 09:06:18AM -0500, Sean Dague wrote: >>>>>>> On 03/06/2017 08:43 AM, Andreas Jaeger wrote: >>>>>>>> On 2017-03-06 14:03, Sean Dague wrote: >>>>>>>>> I'm trying to understand the implications of >>>>>>>>> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439500. And the comment in the linked >>>>>>>>> email: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ">> Yes, we decided some time ago to not translate the log files >>>>>>>>> anymore and >>>>>>>>>>> thus our tools do not handle them anymore - and in general, we >>>>>>>>>>> remove >>>>>>>>>>> these kind of files." >>>>>>>>> Does that mean that all the _LE, _LI, _LW stuff in projects should be >>>>>>>>> fully removed? Nova currently enforces those things are there - >>>>>>>>> https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/e88dd0034b1b135d680dae3494597e295add9cfe/nova/hacking/checks.py#L314-L333 >>>>>>>>> and want to make sure our tools aren't making us do work that the i18n >>>>>>>>> team is ignoring and throwing away. >>>>>> So... just looking for a definitive statement on this since there has >>>>>> been some back and forth discussion. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is it correct to say - all projects may (should?) now remove all bits in >>>>>> place for using and enforcing the _Lx() translation markers. Only _() >>>>>> should be used for user visible error messages. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sean (smcginnis) >>>>>> >>>>> The situation is still not quite clear to me, and it would be >>>>> unfortunate to undo too much of the translation support work because >>>>> it will be hard to redo it. >>>>> >>>>> Is there documentation somewhere describing what the i18n team has >>>>> committed to trying to translate? >>>> >>>> I18n team describes translation plan and priority in Zanata - >>>> translation platform >>>> : https://translate.openstack.org/ . >>>> >>>>> I think I heard that there was a >>>>> shift in emphasis to "user interfaces", but I'm not sure if that >>>>> includes error messages in services. Should we remove all use of >>>>> oslo.i18n from services? Or only when dealing with logs? >>>> >>>> When I18n team decided to removal of log translations in Barcelona last >>>> October, there had been no >>>> discussion on the removal of oslo.i18n translation support for log >>>> messages. >>>> (I have kept track of what I18n team discussed during Barcelona I18n >>>> meetup on Etherpad - [1]) >>>> >>>> Now I think that the final decision of oslo.i18n log translation support >>>> needs more involvement >>>> with translators considering oslo.i18n translation support, and also >>>> more people on community wide including >>>> project working groups, user committee, and operators as Matt suggested. >>>> >>>> If translating log messages is meaningful to some community members and >>>> some translators show interests >>>> on translating log messages, then I18n team can revert the policy with >>>> rolling back of translations. >>>> Translated strings are still alive in not only previous stable branches, >>>> but also in translation memory in Zanata - translation platform. >>>> >>>> I would like to find some ways to discuss this topic with more community >>>> wide. >>> >>> I would suggest that we discuss this at the Forum in Boston, but I think >>> we need to gather some input before then because if there is a consensus >>> that log translations are not useful we can allow the code cleanup to >>> occur and not take up face-to-face time. >> >> I've started a thread on the operators mailing list [1]. >> >> Doug >> >> [1] >> http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2017-March/012887.html >> > > Based on the feedback on that list, there seems to be no real support > for maintaining the ability to translate log messages. I therefore > recommend that teams accept the patches to remove them, and stop > enforcing their use. Whether or not teams want to make a concerted > effort to sweep through the code and delete them is up to them. > > Please keep translations for exceptions and other user-facing messages, > for now. > > As Sean pointed out elsewhere, we can deal with other log-related > changes independently, since those are likely to need more thought to > write and review.
ACK. Just landed the stop enforcing patch in Nova - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/446452/ -Sean -- Sean Dague http://dague.net __________________________________________________________________________ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
