On Mon, Jun 12, 2017, 19:47 Mikhail Fedosin <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 12:01 AM, Flavio Percoco <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> On 12/06/17 23:20 +0300, Mikhail Fedosin wrote: >> >>> My opinion is that Glance stagnates and it's really hard to implement new >>> features there. In two years, only one major improvement was developed >>> (Image Import Refactoring), and no one has tested it in production yet. >>> And >>> this is in the heyday of the community, as you said! >>> >> >> You're skipping 2 important things here: >> >> The first one is that focusing on the image import refactor (IIR) was a >> community choice. It's fixing a bigger problem that requires more focus. >> The >> design of the feature took a couple of cycles too, not the >> implementation. The >> second thing is that the slow pace may also be caused by the lack of >> contributors. > > > It's exactly what I'm talking about - implementing medium-size feature > (IIR is about 600 lines of code [1][2]) took 1 year of discussions and 1 > year for implementation of 5 full-time developers. And most importantly, it > took all the community attention. What if we need to implement more serious > features? How much time will it take, given that there are not so many > developers left? > What I was referring to is that this is not the normal case. The IIR was a special case, which doesn't mean implementing features is easy, as you mentioned. On the other hand OpenStack users have been requesting for new features for >>> a long time: I'm talking about mutistore support, versioning of images, >>> image slicing (like in docker), validation and conversion of uploading >>> data >>> and so on. And I can say that it is impossible to implement them without >>> breaking Glance. But all this stuff is already done in Glare (multistore >>> support is implemented partially, because modifications of glance_store >>> are >>> required). And if we switch OpenStack to Glare users will get these >>> features out of the box. >>> >> >> Some of these features could be implemented in Glance. As you mentioned, >> the >> code base is over-engineered but it could be simplified. > > > Everything is possible, I know that. But at what cost? > Exactly! This is what I'm asking you to help me out with. I'm trying to have a constructive discussion on the cost of this and find a sohort term solution and then a long term one. I don't think the current problem is caused by Glance's lack of "exciting" >> features and I certainly don't think replacing it with Glare would be of >> any >> help now. It may be something we want to think about in the future (and >> this is >> not the first time I say this) but what you're proposing will be an >> expensive >> distraction from the real problem. > > > And for the very last time - I don't suggest to replace Glance now or even > in a year. At the moment, an email with the title "Glance needs help, it's > getting critical" is enough. > I call to think about the distant future, probably two years or near that. > What can prevent Flavio from writing of such emails in T cycle? Bringing > people from Nova and Cinder part-time will not work, because, as we > discussed above, even medium-size feature requires years of dedicated work, > and having their +1 on typo fixes... what's the benefit of that? > Fully agree here. What I think we need is a short term and a long term solution. Would you agree with this? I mentioned in my previous email that I've never been opposed to a future transition away from Glance as soon as this happens naturally. I understand that you're not proposing to replace Glance now. What I was trying to understand is why you thought migratinf away from Glance in the future would help us now. And for the very last time - I'm here not to promote Glare. As you know, I > will soon be involved in this project extremely mediately. I'm here to > decide what to do with Glance next. In the original email Flavio said "So, > before things get even worse, I'd like us to brainstorm a bit on what > solutions/options we have now". I described in detail my personal feelings > about the current situation in Glance for the members of TC, who are > unfamiliar with the project. And also I suggested one possible solution > with Glare, maybe not the best one, but I haven't heard any other proposals > . > I know you're not promoting Glare and O hope my emails are not coming through as accusations of any kind. I'm playing the devil's advocate because I would like us to explore the different options we have and you proposed one. Instead of constructive discussion and decision making, I received a bunch > of insults in private correspondence, accusations of betrayal and > suggestions to drive me out of the community. > As you know, I was cc'd in the thread where this happened and I'm deeply sorry it happened. As I mentioned in my reply to that thread, I know your intentions are goos and I do not want you to go anywhere. Let's try to solve this conflict the best way possible. > So, should I shut up and pretend that everything is absolutely wonderful? > If this is a way to solve problems in OpenStack, then I understand the > reason for such email titles. > Absolutely not, don't shut up. I'm sad this discussion has been stressful for you. I hope you understand that this thread is unrelated to that private email and I'm actually interested in hearing more from you. :) Flavio P.S: replying from phone, sorry if the format is all wrong. > Best, > Mike > > [1] > https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:merged+project:openstack/glance+branch:master+topic:feature/image-import > [2] > https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:merged+project:openstack/glance+branch:master+topic:feature/image-import/import > __________________________________________________________________________ > OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) > Unsubscribe: [email protected]?subject:unsubscribe > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev >
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