Regarding some web clients that are potentially useful https://webchat.freenode.net/ - Zane mentioned this already and I can say I tried/used it some time ago until I opted for CLI/alternatives https://riot.im (iOS and Android apps available along with online client) - i find it a bit sluggish at times, others have not, either way it is a decent alternative https://thelounge.chat/ - have not tried it yet but looks promising especially self-hosted option https://irccloud.com - what I currently use, I do believe it can be blocked, i am looking into riot and thelounge tbh
On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 12:18 PM Zane Bitter <zbit...@redhat.com> wrote: > On 18/09/18 9:10 PM, Jaesuk Ahn wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 5:30 AM Zane Bitter <zbit...@redhat.com > > <mailto:zbit...@redhat.com>> wrote: > > Resotring the whole quote here because I accidentally sent the original > to the -sigs list only and not the -dev list. > > >> As others have mentioned, I think this is diving into solutions when we > haven't defined the problems. I know you mentioned it briefly in the PTG > session, but that context never made it to the review or the mailing list. > >> > >> So AIUI the issue you're trying to solve here is that the TC members > seem distant and inaccessible to Chinese contributors because we're not on > the same social networks they are? > >> > >> Perhaps there are others too? > >> > >> Obvious questions to ask from there would be: > >> > >> - Whether this is the most important issue facing contributors from the > APAC region > >> > >> - To what extent the proposed solution is expected to help > > > > > > I do agree with Zane on the above point. > > For the record, I didn't express an opinion. I'm just pointing out what > the questions are. > > > As one of OpenStack participants from Asia region, I will put my > > personal opinion. > > IRC and ML has been an unified and standard way of communication in > > OpenStack Community, and that has been a good way to encourage "open > > communication" on a unified method wherever you are from, or whatever > > background you have. If the whole community start recognize some other > > tools (say WeChat) as recommended alternative communication method > > because there are many people there, ironically, it might be a way to > > break "diversity" and "openness" we want to embrace. > > > > Using whatever social media (or tools) in a specific region due to any > > reason is not a problem. Anyone is free to use anything. Only thing we > > need to make sure is, if you want to communicate officially with the > > whole community, there is a very well defined and unified way to do it. > > This is currently IRC and ML. Some of Korean dev has difficulties to use > > IRC. However, there is not a perfect tool out there in this world, and > > we accept all the reason why the community selected IRC as official tool > > > > But, that being said, There are some things I am facing with IRC from > > here in Korea > > > > As a person from Asia, I do have some of pain points. Because of time > > differences, often, I have to do achieve searching since most of > > conversations happened while I am sleeping. IRC is not a good tool to > > perform "search backlog". Although there is message archive you can dig, > > it is still hard. This is a problem. I do love to see any technical > > solution for me to efficiently and easily go through irc backlog, like > > most of modern chat tools. > > > > Secondly, IRC is not a popular one even in dev community here in Korea. > > In addition, in order to properly use irc, you need to do extra work, > > something like setting up bouncing server. I had to do google search to > > figure out how to use it. > > I think part of the disconnect here is that people have different ideas > about what IRC (and chat in general) is for. > > For me it's a way to conduct synchronous conversations. These tend to go > badly on the mailing list (really long threads of 1 sentence per > message) or on code review (have to keep refreshing), so it's good that > we have another tool to do this. I answer a lot of user questions, > clarify comments on patches, and obviously join team meetings in IRC. > > The key part is 'synchronous' though. If I'm not there, the conversation > is not going to be synchronous. I don't run a bouncer, although I > generally leave my computer running when I'm not working so you'll often > (but not always) be able to ping me, and I'll usually look back to see > if it was something important. Otherwise it's 50-50 whether I'll even > bother to read scrollback, and certainly not for more than a couple of > channels. > > Other people, however, have a completely different perspective: they > want a place where they are guaranteed to be reachable at any time (even > if they don't see it until later) and the entire record is always right > there. I think Slack was built for those kinds of people. You would have > to drag me kicking and screaming into Slack even if it weren't > proprietary software. > > I don't know where WeChat falls on that spectrum. But maybe part of the > issue is that we're creating too high an expectation of what it means to > participate in the community (e.g. if you're not going to set up a > bouncer and be reachable 24/7 then you might as well not get involved at > all - this is 100% untrue). I've seen several assertions, including in > the review, that any decisions must be documented on the mailing list or > IRC, and I'm not sure I agree. IMHO, any decisions should be documented > on the mailing list, period. > > I'd love to see more participation on the mailing list. Since it is > asynchronous already it's somewhat friendlier to those in APAC time > zones (although there are still issues, real or perceived, with > decisions being reached before anyone on that side of the world has a > chance to weigh in), and a lot easier than carrying on a conversation in > real time for those who don't speak English natively. And while can > still be technical challenges with mailing lists, almost every company > allows email through their corporate firewall. > > AIUI though, augmenting IRC was not the point of the proposal. Rather, I > think it was for TC members to 'fly the flag' in WeChat to be more > visible and available to the portion of the community that is there. > > > In that sense, It would be great to have > > OpenStack community provided, simplified and well-written, written in > > multiple language, IRC guide docs. Alternatively, if OpenStack community > > can provide a good web-based irc client tool, that would be fantastic. > > I haven't tried it but: https://webchat.freenode.net/ > > > As I described the above, we can certainly have a healthy discussion on > > what different and real problems we are facing from Asia. > > However, I don't think this TC resolution is good way to do that. > > > > Cheers, > > -- > > > > Jaesuk Ahn, Team Lead > > Virtualization SW Lab, SW R&D Center > > > > SK Telecom > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > openstack-sigs mailing list > > openstack-s...@lists.openstack.org > > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-sigs > > > > > _______________________________________________ > openstack-sigs mailing list > openstack-s...@lists.openstack.org > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-sigs > -- Kind regards, Melvin Hillsman mrhills...@gmail.com mobile: (832) 264-2646
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