On 08/13/2014 02:44 PM, Russell Bryant wrote:
> On 08/13/2014 02:33 PM, Dan Smith wrote:
>> On 8/13/14 11:20 AM, Mike Bayer wrote:
>>> On Aug 13, 2014, at 1:44 PM, Russell Bryant <rbry...@redhat.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I disagree.  IMO, *expecting* people to travel, potentially across
>>>> the globe, 4 times a year is an unreasonable expectation, and
>>>> quite uncharacteristic of open source projects.  If we can't figure
>>>> out a way to have the most important conversations in a way that is
>>>> inclusive of everyone, we're failing with our processes.
>>>>
>>>> By all means, if a subset wants to meet up and make progress on
>>>> some things, I think that's fine.  I don't think anyone think it's
>>>> not useful.
>>
>> Well, it doesn't seem at all excessive to me, given the rate and volume
>> at which we do things around here. That said, if a significant number of
>> cores think it's not doable, then I guess that's a data point.
>>
>> From what you said above, it sounds like you're okay with the meetings
>> but not the requirement for cores. I said "expect" above -- is that a
>> reasonable thing? Expect them to be present, unless they have a reason
>> not to be there? Reasons could be personal or preference, but hopefully
>> not "I never come to midcycles because $reason."
>>
>>> It’s difficult to compare OpenStack to other open source projects, in
>>> that it is on such a more massive and high velocity scale than almost
>>> any others (perhaps the Linux kernel is similar). 
>>
>> Yeah, I have a hard time justifying anything by comparing us to other
>> projects. I've been involved with plenty and don't think any of them are
>> useful data points for what we should or should not do here in terms of
>> anything related to velocity :)
> 
> I think we also need to be careful with not continuing to increase
> expectations because of velocity.  Burnout is a real problem.
> 

Let me try to say it another way.  You seemed to say that it wasn't much
to ask given the rate at which things happen in OpenStack.  I would
argue that given the rate, we should not try to ask more of individuals
(like this proposal) and risk burnout.  Instead, we should be doing our
best to be more open an inclusive to give the project the best chance to
grow, as that's the best way to get more done.

I think an increased travel expectation is a raised bar that will hinder
team growth, not help it.

-- 
Russell Bryant

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