> I'm unsure the meaning of hosting FLIP directly on the LB.

There can be LB appliances (usually physical appliance) that sit at the edge 
and is connected to receive floating IP traffic .

In such a case, the VIP/Virtual Server with FLIP  can be configured in the LB 
Meaning, LB appliance is now the "owner" of the FLIP and will be responding to 

Vijay V.

From: Phillip Toohill [mailto:phillip.tooh...@rackspace.com]
Sent: 15 October 2014 23:16
To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Neutron][LBaaS][Octavia] Floating IP management

No worries :)

Could you possibly clarify what you mean by the FLIP hosted directly on the LB?

Im currently assuming the FLIP pools are designated in Neutron at this point 
and we would simply be associating with the VIP port, I'm unsure the meaning of 
hosting FLIP directly on the LB.

Thank you for responses! There is definitely a more thought out discussion to 
be had, and glad these ideas are being brought up now rather than later.

From: Vijay Venkatachalam 
Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" 
Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 9:38 AM
To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" 
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Neutron][LBaaS][Octavia] Floating IP management

I felt guilty after reading Vijay B. 's reply :).
My apologies to have replied in brief, here are my thoughts in detail.

Currently LB configuration exposed via floating IP is a 2 step operation.
User has to first "create a VIP with a private IP" and then "creates a FLIP and 
assigns FLIP to private VIP" which would result in a DNAT in the gateway.
The proposal is to combine these 2 steps, meaning make DNATing operation as 
part of VIP creation process.

While this seems to be a simple proposal I think we should consider finer 
The proposal assumes that the FLIP is implemented by the gateway through a DNAT.
We should also be open to creating a VIP with a FLIP rather than a private IP.
Meaning FLIP will be hosted directly by the LB appliance.

In essence, LBaaS plugin will create the FLIP for the VIP and let the driver 
know about the FLIP that should get implemented.
The drivers should have a choice of implementing in its own way.
It could choose to

1.      Implement via the traditional route. Driver creates a private IP, 
implements VIP as a private IP in the lb appliance and calls Neutron to 
implement DNAT (FLIP to private VIP )

2.      Implement VIP as a FLIP directly on the LB appliance. Here there is no 
private IP involved.

Not much changes in the LBaaS API, there is only one IP as part of the VIP.
We can ensure backward compatibility with the driver as well by having Step (1) 
implemented in abstract driver.


From: Vijay Venkatachalam [mailto:vijay.venkatacha...@citrix.com]
Sent: 15 October 2014 05:38
To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Neutron][LBaaS][Octavia] Floating IP management

Thanks for the doc.

The floating IP could be hosted directly by the lb backend/lb appliance as well?
It depends on the appliance deployment.

From: Susanne Balle [mailto:sleipnir...@gmail.com]
Sent: 14 October 2014 21:15
To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Neutron][LBaaS][Octavia] Floating IP management

Nice diagrams. :-) Thanks. Susanne

On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Phillip Toohill 
<phillip.tooh...@rackspace.com<mailto:phillip.tooh...@rackspace.com>> wrote:
Diagrams in jpeg format..

On 10/12/14 10:06 PM, "Phillip Toohill" 

>Hello all,
>Heres some additional diagrams and docs. Not incredibly detailed, but
>should get the point across.
>Feel free to edit if needed.
>Once we come to some kind of agreement and understanding I can rewrite
>these more to be thorough and get them in a more official place. Also, I
>understand theres other use cases not shown in the initial docs, so this
>is a good time to collaborate to make this more thought out.
>Please feel free to ping me with any questions,
>Thank you
>Google DOCS link for FLIP folder:
>-diagrams are draw.io<http://draw.io> based and can be opened from within 
>Drive by
>selecting the appropriate application.
>On 10/7/14 2:25 PM, "Brandon Logan" 
><brandon.lo...@rackspace.com<mailto:brandon.lo...@rackspace.com>> wrote:
>>I'll add some more info to this as well:
>>Neutron LBaaS creates the neutron port for the VIP in the plugin layer
>>before drivers ever have any control.  In the case of an async driver,
>>it will then call the driver's create method, and then return to the
>>user the vip info.  This means the user will know the VIP before the
>>driver even finishes creating the load balancer.
>>So if Octavia is just going to create a floating IP and then associate
>>that floating IP to the neutron port, there is the problem of the user
>>not ever seeing the correct VIP (which would be the floating iP).
>>So really, we need to have a very detailed discussion on what the
>>options are for us to get this to work for those of us intending to use
>>floating ips as VIPs while also working for those only requiring a
>>neutron port.  I'm pretty sure this will require changing the way V2
>>behaves, but there's more discussion points needed on that.  Luckily, V2
>>is in a feature branch and not merged into Neutron master, so we can
>>change it pretty easily.  Phil and I will bring this up in the meeting
>>tomorrow, which may lead to a meeting topic in the neutron lbaas
>>On Mon, 2014-10-06 at 17:40 +0000, Phillip Toohill wrote:
>>> Hello All,
>>> I wanted to start a discussion on floating IP management and ultimately
>>> decide how the LBaaS group wants to handle the association.
>>> There is a need to utilize floating IPs(FLIP) and its API calls to
>>> associate a FLIP to the neutron port that we currently spin up.
>>> See DOCS here:
>>> >
>>> Currently, LBaaS will make internal service calls (clean interface :/)
>>>to create and attach a Neutron port.
>>> The VIP from this port is added to the Loadbalancer object of the Load
>>>balancer configuration and returned to the user.
>>> This creates a bit of a problem if we want to associate a FLIP with the
>>>port and display the FLIP to the user instead of
>>> the ports VIP because the port is currently created and attached in the
>>>plugin and there is no code anywhere to handle the FLIP
>>> association.
>>> To keep this short and to the point:
>>> We need to discuss where and how we want to handle this association. I
>>>have a few questions to start it off.
>>> Do we want to add logic in the plugin to call the FLIP association API?
>>> If we have logic in the plugin should we have configuration that
>>>identifies weather to use/return the FLIP instead the port VIP?
>>> Would we rather have logic for FLIP association in the drivers?
>>> If logic is in the drivers would we still return the port VIP to the
>>>user then later overwrite it with the FLIP?
>>> Or would we have configuration to not return the port VIP initially,
>>>but an additional query would show the associated FLIP.
>>> Is there an internal service call for this, and if so would we use it
>>>instead of API calls?
>>> Theres plenty of other thoughts and questions to be asked and discussed
>>>in regards to FLIP handling,
>>> hopefully this will get us going. I'm certain I may not be completely
>>>understanding this and
>>> is the hopes of this email to clarify any uncertainties.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OpenStack-dev mailing list
>>> OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org<mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org>
>>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
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