On 14/12/16 18:18, Michał Jastrzębski wrote:
I agree that meeting notes are crucial to this type of meeting.I just
say that gerrit PoC/demo is valid form of 'notes' if meeting was about
some implementional detail, which I assume is the case for this type of
meetings.
Do we agree that as hoc hangout meetings are acceptable form of
cooperation if invitation is own and notes are published?
It's not possible to have 100% open design. When I'm sitting alone at my
desk thinking, that's kind of like a videoconference of one. Nobody else
can be inside my head (much to y'all's relief, I'm sure). But open
design means that everything I come up with there is subject to review,
and possibly reversal, by the community. As such, it makes sense to keep
the community updated as regularly as possible. It may seem like that's
slowing down your work, but it actually speeds up the project as a whole
because there's less work to be thrown out when the consensus comes down
another way.
IMHO the same rules apply when there's more than one person involved.
It's fine to discuss, but not to think that you can make a decision for
the community without the involvement of the rest of the community.
What's really annoying is when some group gets together in private to
discuss Problem X, and then comes back to the community to announce that
"we need to implement Solution Y". That's not open design. Open design
means laying out Problem X, Solution Y, alternative Solution Z, and the
reasoning behind preferring one over the other, and then letting the
community at large have their say (perhaps even proposing completely
different solutions) before reaching a consensus.
If the outcome of a private discussion is simply a Gerrit patch
implementing Solution Y then that feels dangerously close to the
undesirable case to me unless it's accompanied by extensive commentary.
A post to the mailing list with the extra details is one way of handling
it. You have to trade off the extra cost of doing that against the
benefit of a high-bandwidth burst of (effectively private)
communication. If it's still worth it then that's OK. But if you try to
have your cake and eat it then you risk compromising the openness of
your design process.
So if one of potential attendees cannot join for that reason, again I
would consider this to be reason enough to move meeting back to irc.
IRC is and keep being our default communication channel.
I'm glad you see it that way too. However, we also need to be mindful of
the fact that some people, especially newcomers, may not feel able to
speak up and demand that an out-of-band meeting of cores not take place.
Particularly if this becomes a routine occurrence.
The next 'generation' of core reviewers will acquire their knowledge
largely from discussions between the current cores. It's important to
the long-term health of the project not to cut them off from those
discussions, even at some cost to the short-term velocity.
cheers,
Zane.
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