Hi,
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005, Pascal Bleser wrote:
[putting some space between the quotes and yours would make it MUCH MORE
readable. At some points you do, at some you forget.]
Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
On Fri, 16 Dec 2005, Juergen Weigert wrote:
...
* openSUSE could be a central repository for OSS.
Not for hosting source, but as "DistForge".
This would be a good motor of the community aspect.
We need a "build host" architecture and a "hidden mirror source",
nothing more.
Eberhard, what do you mean with "hidden mirror source" ?
SUSE did never have sufficient infrastructure and/or bandwidth to say "we
finally have done it, now just take it". You know what "slashdotting"
means...
So OpenSUSE would benefit from a solid mirror hierarchy.
I just have stated "it is already present". If the OpenSUSE project feels
encouraged to use the SUSE distribution mirror hierarchy.
And if they would think they should not feel (but we all know they already
ACT like feeling this way), they simply would have to invoke a separate
mirror hierarchy. They would get it, and I would help too.
* We define a new standard for collaborative packaging and distribution
building.
Please do. Not much work if you invoke a committee out of the suse-user
("suser") packager from "your" apt community.
I'd even like to put it like this: please involve us community packagers
in this process, don't let us stay aside. We can give you feedback about
the issues we're facing every day, what would help most, how to best
organize and coordinate things, at least from our past and current
experience.
Your best qualification is: you are delivering "additional quality" since
years (YES, PLURAL!) Thanks to Richard for clearing this. ;-))
* become an open platform, suited for experimenal development
Already is. See ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/misc/suser-*/.
Yes and no. We (suser-*) were always bound to a "static" core
distribution, from our point of view. We didn't have much possibilities
to influence what was happening in there. This has changed now, or at
least it has started to change.
Yes. ;-))
It (the "build service" ?) should become a truly open and collaborative
platform for working together, both the SUSE staff and the packagers
from the community.
Good hardware, plus userids. Very easy to do...
There's also another aspect: the customized distributions based on SUSE
Linux OSS, such as SUPER, SLICK, ... That's highly experimental, and the
outcomes and experience from those projects will be very interesting.
This is just the same "quality" as additional packages. Needing more disk
space, but that should not be a matter.
Installing customized distributions over the net has to get restricted to
using mirrors (at least in the beginning, I guess) - so a strong directory
scheme is needed.
We already have /pub/opensuse/distribution/, so this is the place which
would hold unique names between all mirrors.
/pub/opensuse/distribution/SUPER/
/pub/opensuse/distribution/SLICK/
go on with this, opensuse core team, please.
It would be a breakdown through an internal wall, I guess - so please put
this idea "upstream" to the Utah center, please.
I had tried before to host SUPER at ftp.gwdg.de, but there was a
communication breakdown which still is lasting.
* strengthen the "SUSE Linux" brand.
Why not. Maybe you need to turn the chamaeleon (gecko) once more, 90
grades this time, with a silly grin and a rolling stones tongue coming
out. ;-))
You might not think so, but that also goes through wallpapers, web
buttons, logos, merchandising (T-shirts and stuff), so people can show
off what their favorite distro is. Don't believe me ? have a look at
Debian ;)
Yes, and a change is a nut, as we all know from the moment that the gecko
turned from left to right. ;-))
* and finally:
- rule the World (any volunteers?)
Count me in ;)
...
* The openSUSE project fades away (both, inside and outside of Novell),
or does gain momentum soon enough.
In my guess, "openSUSE" is just an effort to integrate what has lived
aside since a long time. Just listen to the suser-* packagers, and you
will reach the goal blindly.
Well not necessarely blindly, but I know we can provide a lot in terms
of experience, ideas, suggestions and manpower.
OK, OK. But don't forget that the openSUSE team currently is claiming tnat
they want to invent/invoke such people as you already are since years. So
we have to tell them "already here".
As I already wrote on the opensuse mailing-list some months ago (part of
that lot of emails that got lost in some black hole between the SUSE
10.0 release rush and the SUSE staff taking holidays after that), in my
opinion we should try to: a) coordinate the community/"suser" packagers,
make it more of a joint effort instead of disparate repositories as of
now (a few things have been made towards that direction, but not much,
and definitely not enough) b) grow the packager community, help, review,
teach
Well. My guess is: integration/communication is the spot. Everything
wanted is alredy existing, we simply needthe "big integration".
* It is unclear, how the community can participate.
Reporting, requesting, discussing, packaging.
It's not totally clear how the community can participate as of now, as
not enough has been "opened up" until now (but I know that you know, and
that you're working on that). Nevertheless: - - testing, reporting bugs
- - spreading the word - - making packages (*), testing those packages,
provide feedback, communicate with upstream - - helping users: forums,
IRC, mailing-lists
At least: every partitipant or volunteer is able to go on straight (via
nis own ftp.gwdg.de:/pub/linux/suse/suser-* directory) and invited to
hope that the openSUSE project will offer better opportunities.
Let's delay this aspect and rate again after 6 months, just to get a
better feeling if Novell is more claiming than acting.
At least. my sponsoring request for ftp.gwdg.de (need a new server with
at least 32 GB RAM because the SUSE releases exploded in size) ended in
Nirwana (known as Eric Anderson),
So please hear this, Eric, I will hope for your struggling for another 6
months. But maybe I have to discard my SUSE services earlier, in order to
overcome at all.
(*) I mostly mean packages that are either not in the core distribution
or the latest version, as what is mostly being done currently in
"community packager" repositories
* We try to change everything except ourselves.
(Ouch, this one went deep! Thanks Henne)
Volltreffer ;)
* openSUSE causes fear, uncertainty and doubt at some places inside and
outside Novell.
This is a matter of "simplicity in communication" only.
You need a very simple "migration model" for press releases: the
"professional" team simply has "opened" towards the community, but still
is able to do all the necessary work without any help.
The next sentence should contain "feedback"...
...
* openSUSE may create so much diversity (in packages and distributions)
that clarity gets lost. How do we address that?
Don't forget that the openSUSE community alredy is existing, for years.
Just monitor [EMAIL PROTECTED] and www.linux-club.de...
+1
Hosting
-------
- A new naming idea surfaced.
We are not a 'SourceForge', but a 'BinaryForge' as we host (RPM)
Binaries. -> 'DistForge'?
Forget all associations to existing environments. You are creating
something new, and even if not totally new, you have to have the goal of
"world domination".
DistForge sounds nice ;)
But is poorly leaning on existing 50% Solutions.
High priority item: bugzilla for packages, including community stuff
But you can already enter your bugs into bugzilla.
Cheers -e
--
Eberhard Moenkeberg ([EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED])
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