Jason, actually I think a constructor based solution is better. I was probably the first one to tell my concerns about this approach to Aslak and the serialization issues, long before anyone heard of Pico. I'm using the IoC stuff in an app and my own conclusion on this type 2/3 debate is that type 3 is better.
In real world scenarios the dependencies are not data or javabeans, they are things like manager classes or services. You pass data around with RMI or in a servlet container. You don't serialize service objects. It's a design smell if you do imho, or perhaps if you mix them much. There have been some discussions in pico-dev about supporting constructor chaining. I think relying on a single constructor but letting define a no arg one for the rare cases is a good idea. Ara. > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Jason Carreira > Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 7:49 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [OS-webwork] Decision: Xwork IoC > > Pico will not do anything but their version of type 3 IoC. They've made > that clear. That means constructor only. > > While, in theory, I agree with you on keeping Xwork / WebWork2 focused, > I'd really like to see IoC in there... > > Jason > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ara Abrahamian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 1:01 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: RE: [OS-webwork] Decision: Xwork IoC > > > > > > Pat, why don't you just remove any ioc stuff from xwork and > > let the user use spring or pico or whatever he wants? > > > > Reinventing a relatively half baked ioc system that is not in > > ww's focus is a bad idea imho. Fortunately pico at least has > > some ww support afaik. Just let pico grow and I'm sure the > > pico guys will do a better job than us here because their > > focus is ioc. I'm sure ioc will end up doing a lot more than > > just a constructor call very soon.... > > > > +1 to removing the ioc dependency to pico and the home grown system > > -1 to reinventing the wheel > > > > Ara. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > On Behalf Of > > Pat > > > Lightbody > > > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 7:52 PM > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: [OS-webwork] Decision: Xwork IoC > > > > > > All, > > > After reading the incredibly long thread here and the mind-numbingly > > long > > > thread in pico-dev, I've come to the following conclusion: > > > > > > The difference between contructors and bean properties is so small > > that > > > it's > > > impossible to argue one way or the other. Smart people will > > argue for > > one > > > side or the other till they turn blue, and no solid facts > > will ever be > > > made. > > > > > > With that said, I'm making an executive decision (Matt and > > Jason, back > > me > > > up > > > here ;): just as we provided a simple validation framework and a > > simple > > > type > > > conversion framework in XWork, we should provide a simple IoC > > framework as > > > well. For those that want to live on the wild side, they can use > > FormProc, > > > commons-beanutils, and Spring (or Pico) via their own interceptors. > > Maybe > > > we > > > can even (in the future) start an xwork-components module that is > > > separate. However, introducing a dependency on Spring OR > > Pico does not > > > follow > > our > > > original plan of having small dependencies, especially when > > providing > > > simple support is easily doable (or IoC impl is 200 lines of code). > > > > > > So what's the plan: we remove pico from xwork and put back the > > original, > > > simple, homegrown ioc stuff. That's the way we've been operating, > > that's > > > the > > > way we agreed to operate at the start, and that's the easiest way to > > keep > > > flamebaits and drama out of WebWork. > > > > > > -Pat > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "BOGAERT Mathias" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 8:56 AM > > > Subject: RE: [OS-webwork] Xwork IoC requirements > > > > > > > > > > Jason, > > > > > > > > Read my weblog issue on this: > > > > > > > > http://blogs.atlassian.com/scuttlebutt/ > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Mathias > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Jason Carreira [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Sent: vrijdag 11 juli 2003 17:41 > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Subject: RE: [OS-webwork] Xwork IoC requirements > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, they're going to comment, but not fix anything. In fact, > > they're > > > > pulling out the Bean Property stuff they put in: > > > > > > > > http://jira.codehaus.org/secure/ViewIssue.jspa?key=PICO-23 > > > > > > > > I created the Jira issue you linked, if you look. The last comment > > on it > > > is > > > > this: > > > > > > > > Jon Tirsen [ 11/Jul/03 09:11 AM ] > > > > I understand. The only way to support rewiring dependencies is by > > > > reinstantiating the components. > > > > > > > > Which is, IMHO, unacceptable and a severe limitation of the > > > > constructor-based approach. > > > > > > > > Jason > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: BOGAERT Mathias [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 11:23 AM > > > > > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > > > > > Subject: RE: [OS-webwork] Xwork IoC requirements > > > > > Importance: High > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jason, > > > > > > > > > > Aslak just told me the pico team will reply in a lengthy wiki > > > > > entry to the Spring constr fud. So please wait until we > > have that, > > > > > and the team can decide which direction to go. > > > > > > > > > > BTW they are already on the re-wire issue: > > > > > http://jira.codehaus.org/secure/ViewIssue.jspa?key=PICO-22 > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Mathias > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Jason Carreira [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Sent: vrijdag 11 juli 2003 16:54 > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Subject: RE: [OS-webwork] Xwork IoC requirements > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aren't you getting tired up on that soapbox yet? :-) Don't you > > > > > want to jump down and get your hands dirty for a while? > > > > > > > > > > Personally, I'm leaning toward Spring right now... The Javabean > > > > > style with XML metadata strikes me as the right balance. > > > > > > > > > > Jason > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Hani Suleiman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 10:48 AM > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Subject: Re: [OS-webwork] Xwork IoC requirements > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What! I'm too busy blaming everyone and everything to write > > > > > any code > > > > > > anymore! > > > > > > > > > > > > My vote (as a dedicated xw/ww non-user) goes to keeping the > > > > > homebrewn > > > > > > stuff. pico is neat, but not amazing enough for > > everyone to have > > to > > > > > > live through the yet-another-dependency shock syndrome. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 10:37 AM, Jason Carreira wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > We already had our own... But should I take this as you > > > > > > volunteering? > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > > > > >> From: Hani Suleiman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > >> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 10:31 AM > > > > > > >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > >> Subject: Re: [OS-webwork] Xwork IoC requirements > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Or just roll your own! > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > This SF.Net email sponsored by: Parasoft > > > > > > > Error proof Web apps, automate testing & more. > > Download & eval > > > > > > > WebKing and get a free book. > > www.parasoft.com/bulletproofapps1 > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Opensymphony-webwork mailing list > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > This SF.Net email sponsored by: Parasoft > > > > > > Error proof Web apps, automate testing & more. > > > > > > Download & eval WebKing and get a free book. > > > > > > www.parasoft.com/bulletproofapps1 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Opensymphony-webwork mailing list > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > This SF.Net email sponsored by: Parasoft > > > > > Error proof Web apps, automate testing & more. > > > > > Download & eval WebKing and get a free book. > > > > > www.parasoft.com/bulletproofapps1 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Opensymphony-webwork mailing list > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > This SF.Net email sponsored by: Parasoft > > > > > Error proof Web apps, automate testing & more. > > > > > Download & eval WebKing and get a free book. > > > > > www.parasoft.com/bulletproofapps1 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Opensymphony-webwork mailing list > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > > This SF.Net email sponsored by: Parasoft > > > > Error proof Web apps, automate testing & more. > > > > Download & eval WebKing and get a free book. > > > > www.parasoft.com/bulletproofapps1 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Opensymphony-webwork mailing list > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > > This SF.Net email sponsored by: Parasoft > > > > Error proof Web apps, automate testing & more. > > > > Download & eval WebKing and get a free book. > > > > www.parasoft.com/bulletproofapps1 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Opensymphony-webwork mailing list > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > This SF.Net email sponsored by: Parasoft > > > Error proof Web apps, automate testing & more. > > > Download & eval WebKing and get a free book. > > > www.parasoft.com/bulletproofapps1 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Opensymphony-webwork mailing list > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.Net email sponsored by: Parasoft > > Error proof Web apps, automate testing & more. > > Download & eval WebKing and get a free book. > > www.parasoft.com/bulletproofapps1 > > _______________________________________________ > > Opensymphony-webwork mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email sponsored by: Parasoft > Error proof Web apps, automate testing & more. > Download & eval WebKing and get a free book. > www.parasoft.com/bulletproofapps1 > _______________________________________________ > Opensymphony-webwork mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email sponsored by: Parasoft Error proof Web apps, automate testing & more. 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