All, We have the liaison:
"LS on the consent of draft Recommendation ITU-T Q.3962 (ex. Q.joint_tr) Requirements and Reference Model for optimized traceroute of joint Internet Protocol/Multi-Protocol Label Switching". I have tried to read the Recommendation, still have some concerns and questions. The liaison was addressed to the OPSAWG, but Tianran (OPSAWG co-chair) sent this to the MPLS WG that seem better fitted to respond if we want to. One questions for the OPSAWG is that if the MPLS WG decides to respond would the OPSAWG want to join in on the response? My concerns at moment are (possible there will be more) are rather high level. The consented document is about "IP/MPLS" traceroute. This is core IETF/IP areas, and within the IETF design authority.. If the intention is to align SG-11 protocols with IETF technology that is OK. If it is it is a bit odd that neither STD5 (which include ICMP) nor RFC 8029 are mentioned. In fact a consented Recommendation on IETF core technology does not mention a single RFC. If the intention is to create an ITU-T owned version of traceroute we are back in the discussion on honoring design authorities. The terminology is not well aligned with the IETF RFC. There are "MultiProtocol Label Switch" rather than "MultiProtocol Label Switching", MPLS tags (sic!), CE is said to be expanded as "Customer Equipment", while the common IETF usage is "Customer Edge", and there is more. Figure 6-1 deserves some scrutiny - the PEs seem to belong to both carrier and enterprise network - half of the CE seem to belong to the enterprise network and the other half to something undefined. Also figure 6-1, a normal MPLS network deployment would have IP connectivity end to end and traceroute would just work over IP. Havin said that there is not always IP, e.g. MPLS-TP is built on the assumption. that IP connectivity is not necessary. I think we have good reason to respond even though the Liaison is "For Information". I don't know where the responsibility for STD5/ICMP lies, but possibly someone that know could forward. And I think it would be a good idea to call on Scott to coordinate a response. /Loa > <html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; > charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><br > id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature"><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir="ltr"><br>Begin forwarded > message:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><b>From:</b> > Greg Mirsky <gregimir...@gmail.com><br><b>Date:</b> 29 October 2023 > at 04:21:17 GMT+8<br><b>To:</b> Tony Li > <tony...@tony.li><br><b>Cc:</b> m...@ietf.org, Henk Birkholz <henk.birkh...@sit.fraunhofer.de>, liaison-coordinat...@iab.org, Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran=40huawei....@dmarc.ietf.org>, Warren Kumari <war...@kumari.net>, Joe Clarke <jcla...@cisco.com>, mpls-cha...@ietf.org, Robert Wilton <rwil...@cisco.com>, > itu-t-liai...@iab.org, rtg-...@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> <b>Re: [mpls] New Liaison Statement, "LS on the consent of draft Recommendation ITU-T Q.3962 (ex. Q.joint_tr) âRequirements and Reference Model for optimized > traceroute of joint Internet Protocol/Multi-Protocol Label > Switchingâ"</b><br><br></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Hi Tony,<div>it appears to me that what this recommendations describes is Uniform tunneling model (<a > href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc3443";>RFC 3443</a>) for treating ICMP over MPLS (not sure whether the proponents of the recommendation argue for using the uniform model for subscriber traffic in > general).</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Oct 28, 2023 > at 10:35â¯AM Tony Li <<a > href="mailto:tony...@tony.li";>tony...@tony.li</a>> > wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px > 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br> Perhaps a pointer to IOAM-DEX and a âthanks, already doneâ?<br> <br> > T<br> > <br> > <br> > > On Oct 28, 2023, at 10:14â¯AM, Adrian Farrel <<a > href="mailto:adr...@olddog.co.uk"; > target="_blank">adr...@olddog.co.uk</a>> wrote:<br> > > <br> > > Thanks Tianran,<br> > > <br> > > I think you're right that these requirements are something the MPLS working group may want to look at.<br> > > <br> > > Working group: unless you have ITU-T internal access, look at the copy of Q.3982 that was attached and can be seen at <a > href="https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2023-10-24-itu-t-sg-11-opsawg-ls-on-the-consent-of-draft-recommendation-itu-t-q3962-ex-qjoint_tr-requirements-and-reference-model-for-optim-attachment-1.pdf"; rel="noreferrer" > target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2023-10-24-itu-t-sg-11-opsawg-ls-on-the-consent-of-draft-recommendation-itu-t-q3962-ex-qjoint_tr-requirements-and-reference-model-for-optim-attachment-1.pdf</a> Don't follow the URL in the liaison statement.<br> > > <br> > > The liaison is "for information", but we might want to look to see whether there is anything we can learn from the requirements presented, whether we think there are existing ways of solving the problem presented, > and whether there is any response we want to send.<br> > > <br> > > Thanks,<br> > > Adrian<br> > > <br> > > -----Original Message-----<br> > > From: mpls <<a href="mailto:mpls-boun...@ietf.org"; > target="_blank">mpls-boun...@ietf.org</a>> On Behalf Of Tianran Zhou<br> > > Sent: 28 October 2023 10:10<br> > > To: Liaison Statement Management Tool <<a > href="mailto:stateme...@ietf.org"; > target="_blank">stateme...@ietf.org</a>>; Henk Birkholz <<a href="mailto:henk.birkh...@sit.fraunhofer.de"; > target="_blank">henk.birkh...@sit.fraunhofer.de</a>>; Joe Clarke <<a > href="mailto:jcla...@cisco.com"; target="_blank">jcla...@cisco.com</a>>; > <a href="mailto:m...@ietf.org"; target="_blank">m...@ietf.org</a>; <a href="mailto:mpls-cha...@ietf.org"; > target="_blank">mpls-cha...@ietf.org</a><br> > > Cc: Tatiana Kurakova <<a href="mailto:tatiana.kurak...@itu.int"; target="_blank">tatiana.kurak...@itu.int</a>>; Henk Birkholz <<a href="mailto:henk.birkh...@sit.fraunhofer.de"; > target="_blank">henk.birkh...@sit.fraunhofer.de</a>>; <a > href="mailto:liaison-coordinat...@iab.org"; > target="_blank">liaison-coordinat...@iab.org</a>; Robert Wilton <<a href="mailto:rwil...@cisco.com"; target="_blank">rwil...@cisco.com</a>>; > <a href="mailto:itu-t-liai...@iab.org"; > target="_blank">itu-t-liai...@iab.org</a>; Joe Clarke <<a > href="mailto:jcla...@cisco.com"; target="_blank">jcla...@cisco.com</a>>; > Operations and Management Area Working Group Discussion List <<a href="mailto:opsawg@ietf.org"; target="_blank">opsawg@ietf.org</a>>; Warren Kumari <<a href="mailto:war...@kumari.net"; > target="_blank">war...@kumari.net</a>><br> > > Subject: Re: [mpls] New Liaison Statement, "LS on the consent of draft Recommendation ITU-T Q.3962 (ex. Q.joint_tr) âRequirements and Reference Model for optimized traceroute of joint Internet > Protocol/Multi-Protocol Label Switchingâ"<br> > > <br> > > Hi MPLS WG,<br> > > <br> > > I forward this LS to MPLS because I believe it not really belongs to > OPSAWG.<br> > > I think MPLS WG should be the right place to receive.<br> > > <br> > > Best,<br> > > Tianran<br> > > <br> > > <br> > > -----Original Message-----<br> > > From: Liaison Statement Management Tool [mailto:<a > href="mailto:stateme...@ietf.org"; target="_blank">stateme...@ietf.org</a>] > <br> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2023 11:23 PM<br> > > To: Henk Birkholz <<a > href="mailto:henk.birkh...@sit.fraunhofer.de"; > target="_blank">henk.birkh...@sit.fraunhofer.de</a>>; Joe Clarke <<a > href="mailto:jcla...@cisco.com"; target="_blank">jcla...@cisco.com</a>>; > Tianran Zhou <<a href="mailto:zhoutian...@huawei.com"; > target="_blank">zhoutian...@huawei.com</a>><br> > > Cc: Henk Birkholz <<a > href="mailto:henk.birkh...@sit.fraunhofer.de"; > target="_blank">henk.birkh...@sit.fraunhofer.de</a>>; Joe Clarke <<a > href="mailto:jcla...@cisco.com"; target="_blank">jcla...@cisco.com</a>>; > Operations and Management Area Working Group Discussion List <<a href="mailto:opsawg@ietf.org"; target="_blank">opsawg@ietf.org</a>>; Robert Wilton <<a href="mailto:rwil...@cisco.com"; > target="_blank">rwil...@cisco.com</a>>; Scott Mansfield > <scott.mansfi...@ericsson.com>; Tatiana Kurakova <<a > href="mailto:tatiana.kurak...@itu.int"; > target="_blank">tatiana.kurak...@itu.int</a>>; Tianran Zhou <<a href="mailto:zhoutian...@huawei.com"; > target="_blank">zhoutian...@huawei.com</a>>; Warren Kumari <<a href="mailto:war...@kumari.net"; target="_blank">war...@kumari.net</a>>; > <a href="mailto:itu-t-liai...@iab.org"; > target="_blank">itu-t-liai...@iab.org</a>; <a > href="mailto:liaison-coordinat...@iab.org"; > target="_blank">liaison-coordinat...@iab.org</a><br> > > Subject: New Liaison Statement, "LS on the consent of draft Recommendation ITU-T Q.3962 (ex. Q.joint_tr) âRequirements and Reference > Model for optimized traceroute of joint Internet Protocol/Multi-Protocol Label Switchingâ"<br> > > <br> > > Title: LS on the consent of draft Recommendation ITU-T Q.3962 (ex. Q.joint_tr) âRequirements and Reference Model for optimized traceroute of joint Internet Protocol/Multi-Protocol Label Switchingâ<br> > Submission Date: 2023-10-24<br> > > URL of the IETF Web page: <a > href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1869/"; rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1869/</a><br> > <br> > > From: Denis ANDREEV <<a href="mailto:tsbs...@itu.int"; > target="_blank">tsbs...@itu.int</a>><br> > > To: Henk Birkholz <<a > href="mailto:henk.birkh...@sit.fraunhofer.de"; > target="_blank">henk.birkh...@sit.fraunhofer.de</a>>,Joe Clarke <<a > href="mailto:jcla...@cisco.com"; > target="_blank">jcla...@cisco.com</a>>,Tianran Zhou <<a > href="mailto:zhoutian...@huawei.com"; > target="_blank">zhoutian...@huawei.com</a>><br> > > Cc: Robert Wilton <<a href="mailto:rwil...@cisco.com"; > target="_blank">rwil...@cisco.com</a>>,Warren Kumari <<a > href="mailto:war...@kumari.net"; > target="_blank">war...@kumari.net</a>>,<a > href="mailto:itu-t-liai...@iab.org"; > target="_blank">itu-t-liai...@iab.org</a> <<a > href="mailto:itu-t-liai...@iab.org"; > target="_blank">itu-t-liai...@iab.org</a>>,Joe Clarke <<a > href="mailto:jcla...@cisco.com"; > target="_blank">jcla...@cisco.com</a>>,Scott Mansfield > <scott.mansfi...@ericsson.com>,Operations and Management Area Working Group Discussion List <<a href="mailto:opsawg@ietf.org"; target="_blank">opsawg@ietf.org</a>>,Henk Birkholz <<a > href="mailto:henk.birkh...@sit.fraunhofer.de"; > target="_blank">henk.birkh...@sit.fraunhofer.de</a>>,Tianran Zhou <<a href="mailto:zhoutian...@huawei.com"; > target="_blank">zhoutian...@huawei.com</a>> Response Contacts: Tatiana > Kurakova <<a href="mailto:tatiana.kurak...@itu.int"; > target="_blank">tatiana.kurak...@itu.int</a>> Technical Contacts: <br> > > Purpose: For information<br> > > <br> > > Body: This liaison statement provides information about the consented > item as a result of the ITU-T SG11 meeting (Geneva, 10-20 October 2023).<br> > > <br> > > ITU-T SG11 would like to inform ITU-T Study Group 13 and IETF about the draft new Recommendation ITU-T Q.3962 (ex. Q. joint_tr) > âRequirements and Reference Model for optimized traceroute of joint Internet Protocol/Multi-Protocol Label Switchingâ which was consented during the ITU-T SG11 meeting (Geneva, 10-20 October 2023).<br> > > <br> > > The draft new Recommendation ITU-T Q. 3962 (ex. Q. joint_tr) âRequirements and Reference Model for optimized traceroute of joint Internet Protocol/Multi-Protocol Label Switchingâ is attached for your convenience.<br> > > ITU-T SG11 looks forward to collaborating with ITU-T Study Group 13 and IETF on this matter.<br> > > <br> > > Attachment:<br> > > SG11-TD747/GEN: Consent â draft Recommendation ITU-T Q.3962 (ex. Q.joint_tr): Requirements and Reference Model for optimized traceroute of > joint Internet Protocol/Multi-Protocol Label Switching (Geneva, 10-20 October 2023)<br> > > Attachments:<br> > > <br> > > SG11-LS108-Att-TD747<br> > > <a > href="https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2023-10-24-itu-t-sg-11-opsawg-ls-on-the-consent-of-draft-recommendation-itu-t-q3962-ex-qjoint_tr-requirements-and-reference-model-for-optim-attachment-1.pdf"; rel="noreferrer" > target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2023-10-24-itu-t-sg-11-opsawg-ls-on-the-consent-of-draft-recommendation-itu-t-q3962-ex-qjoint_tr-requirements-and-reference-model-for-optim-attachment-1.pdf</a><br> > <br> > > SG11-LS108<br> > > <a > href="https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2023-10-24-itu-t-sg-11-opsawg-ls-on-the-consent-of-draft-recommendation-itu-t-q3962-ex-qjoint_tr-requirements-and-reference-model-for-optim-attachment-2.docx"; rel="noreferrer" > target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2023-10-24-itu-t-sg-11-opsawg-ls-on-the-consent-of-draft-recommendation-itu-t-q3962-ex-qjoint_tr-requirements-and-reference-model-for-optim-attachment-2.docx</a><br> > <br> > > <br> > > <br> > > _______________________________________________<br> > > mpls mailing list<br> > > <a href="mailto:m...@ietf.org"; target="_blank">m...@ietf.org</a><br> > > <a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls"; rel="noreferrer" > target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</a><br> > <br> > > _______________________________________________<br> > > mpls mailing list<br> > > <a href="mailto:m...@ietf.org"; target="_blank">m...@ietf.org</a><br> > > <a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls"; rel="noreferrer" > target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</a><br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> > mpls mailing list<br> > <a href="mailto:m...@ietf.org"; target="_blank">m...@ietf.org</a><br> <a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls"; rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</a><br> </blockquote></div> > <span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>mpls mailing > list</span><br><span>m...@ietf.org</span><br><span>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</span><br></div></blockquote></body></html> _______________________________________________ OPSAWG mailing list OPSAWG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg
