All,
We have the liaison:
"LS on the consent of draft Recommendation ITU-T Q.3962 (ex. Q.joint_tr)
Requirements and Reference Model for optimized traceroute of joint
Internet Protocol/Multi-Protocol Label Switching".
I have tried to read the Recommendation, still have some concerns and
questions.
The liaison was addressed to the OPSAWG, but Tianran (OPSAWG co-chair)
sent this to the MPLS WG that seem better fitted to respond if we want
to.
One questions for the OPSAWG is that if the MPLS WG decides to respond
would the OPSAWG want to join in on the response?
My concerns at moment are (possible there will be more) are rather high
level.
The consented document is about "IP/MPLS" traceroute. This is core
IETF/IP
areas, and within the IETF design authority.. If the intention is to
align SG-11 protocols with IETF technology that is OK.
If it is it is a bit odd that neither STD5 (which include ICMP) nor
RFC
8029 are mentioned. In fact a consented Recommendation on IETF core
technology does not mention a single RFC.
If the intention is to create an ITU-T owned version of traceroute we
are
back in the discussion on honoring design authorities.
The terminology is not well aligned with the IETF RFC. There are
"MultiProtocol Label Switch" rather than "MultiProtocol Label
Switching",
MPLS tags (sic!), CE is said to be expanded as "Customer Equipment",
while
the common IETF usage is "Customer Edge", and there is more.
Figure 6-1 deserves some scrutiny
- the PEs seem to belong to both carrier and enterprise network
- half of the CE seem to belong to the enterprise network and the
other half to something undefined.
Also figure 6-1, a normal MPLS network deployment would have IP
connectivity end to end and traceroute would just work over IP.
Havin said that there is not always IP, e.g. MPLS-TP is built on the
assumption. that IP connectivity is not necessary.
I think we have good reason to respond even though the Liaison is "For
Information".
I don't know where the responsibility for STD5/ICMP lies, but possibly
someone that know could forward.
And I think it would be a good idea to call on Scott to coordinate a
response.
/Loa
<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><br
id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature"><div dir="ltr">Sent from my
iPhone</div><div dir="ltr"><br>Begin forwarded
message:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div
dir="ltr"><b>From:</b>
Greg Mirsky <gregimir...@gmail.com><br><b>Date:</b> 29 October
2023
at 04:21:17 GMT+8<br><b>To:</b> Tony Li
<tony...@tony.li><br><b>Cc:</b> m...@ietf.org, Henk Birkholz
<henk.birkh...@sit.fraunhofer.de>, liaison-coordinat...@iab.org,
Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran=40huawei....@dmarc.ietf.org>, Warren
Kumari <war...@kumari.net>, Joe Clarke <jcla...@cisco.com>,
mpls-cha...@ietf.org, Robert Wilton <rwil...@cisco.com>,
itu-t-liai...@iab.org, rtg-...@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> <b>Re:
[mpls]
New Liaison Statement, "LS on the consent of draft Recommendation ITU-T
Q.3962 (ex. Q.joint_tr) “Requirements and Reference Model for
optimized
traceroute of joint Internet Protocol/Multi-Protocol Label
Switchingâ€"</b><br><br></div></blockquote><blockquote
type="cite"><div
dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Hi Tony,<div>it appears to me that what this
recommendations describes is Uniform tunneling model (<a
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc3443";>RFC 3443</a>) for
treating ICMP over MPLS (not sure whether the proponents of the
recommendation argue for using the uniform model for subscriber traffic
in
general).</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><br><div
class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Oct 28,
2023
at 10:35 AM Tony Li <<a
href="mailto:tony...@tony.li";>tony...@tony.li</a>>
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
Perhaps a pointer to IOAM-DEX and a “thanks, already done�<br> <br>
T<br>
<br>
<br>
> On Oct 28, 2023, at 10:14 AM, Adrian Farrel <<a
href="mailto:adr...@olddog.co.uk";
target="_blank">adr...@olddog.co.uk</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Thanks Tianran,<br>
> <br>
> I think you're right that these requirements are something the
MPLS
working group may want to look at.<br>
> <br>
> Working group: unless you have ITU-T internal access, look at the
copy of Q.3982 that was attached and can be seen at <a
href="
https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2023-10-24-itu-t-sg-11-opsawg-ls-on-the-consent-of-draft-recommendation-itu-t-q3962-ex-qjoint_tr-requirements-and-reference-model-for-optim-attachment-1.pdf
"
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2023-10-24-itu-t-sg-11-opsawg-ls-on-the-consent-of-draft-recommendation-itu-t-q3962-ex-qjoint_tr-requirements-and-reference-model-for-optim-attachment-1.pdf
</a>
Don't follow the URL in the liaison statement.<br>
> <br>
> The liaison is "for information", but we might want to look to
see
whether there is anything we can learn from the requirements presented,
whether we think there are existing ways of solving the problem
presented,
and whether there is any response we want to send.<br>
> <br>
> Thanks,<br>
> Adrian<br>
> <br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: mpls <<a href="mailto:mpls-boun...@ietf.org";
target="_blank">mpls-boun...@ietf.org</a>> On Behalf Of Tianran
Zhou<br>
> Sent: 28 October 2023 10:10<br>
> To: Liaison Statement Management Tool <<a
href="mailto:stateme...@ietf.org";
target="_blank">stateme...@ietf.org</a>>; Henk Birkholz <<a
href="mailto:henk.birkh...@sit.fraunhofer.de";
target="_blank">henk.birkh...@sit.fraunhofer.de</a>>; Joe Clarke
<<a
href="mailto:jcla...@cisco.com";
target="_blank">jcla...@cisco.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:m...@ietf.org"; target="_blank">m...@ietf.org</a>; <a
href="mailto:mpls-cha...@ietf.org";
target="_blank">mpls-cha...@ietf.org</a><br>
> Cc: Tatiana Kurakova <<a
href="mailto:tatiana.kurak...@itu.int";
target="_blank">tatiana.kurak...@itu.int</a>>; Henk Birkholz <<a
href="mailto:henk.birkh...@sit.fraunhofer.de";
target="_blank">henk.birkh...@sit.fraunhofer.de</a>>; <a
href="mailto:liaison-coordinat...@iab.org";
target="_blank">liaison-coordinat...@iab.org</a>; Robert Wilton <<a
href="mailto:rwil...@cisco.com";
target="_blank">rwil...@cisco.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:itu-t-liai...@iab.org";
target="_blank">itu-t-liai...@iab.org</a>; Joe Clarke <<a
href="mailto:jcla...@cisco.com";
target="_blank">jcla...@cisco.com</a>>;
Operations and Management Area Working Group Discussion List <<a
href="mailto:opsawg@ietf.org"; target="_blank">opsawg@ietf.org</a>>;
Warren Kumari <<a href="mailto:war...@kumari.net";
target="_blank">war...@kumari.net</a>><br>
> Subject: Re: [mpls] New Liaison Statement, "LS on the consent of
draft Recommendation ITU-T Q.3962 (ex. Q.joint_tr) “Requirements and
Reference Model for optimized traceroute of joint Internet
Protocol/Multi-Protocol Label Switchingâ€"<br>
> <br>
> Hi MPLS WG,<br>
> <br>
> I forward this LS to MPLS because I believe it not really belongs
to
OPSAWG.<br>
> I think MPLS WG should be the right place to receive.<br>
> <br>
> Best,<br>
> Tianran<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: Liaison Statement Management Tool [mailto:<a
href="mailto:stateme...@ietf.org";
target="_blank">stateme...@ietf.org</a>]
<br>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2023 11:23 PM<br>
> To: Henk Birkholz <<a
href="mailto:henk.birkh...@sit.fraunhofer.de";
target="_blank">henk.birkh...@sit.fraunhofer.de</a>>; Joe Clarke
<<a
href="mailto:jcla...@cisco.com";
target="_blank">jcla...@cisco.com</a>>;
Tianran Zhou <<a href="mailto:zhoutian...@huawei.com";
target="_blank">zhoutian...@huawei.com</a>><br>
> Cc: Henk Birkholz <<a
href="mailto:henk.birkh...@sit.fraunhofer.de";
target="_blank">henk.birkh...@sit.fraunhofer.de</a>>; Joe Clarke
<<a
href="mailto:jcla...@cisco.com";
target="_blank">jcla...@cisco.com</a>>;
Operations and Management Area Working Group Discussion List <<a
href="mailto:opsawg@ietf.org"; target="_blank">opsawg@ietf.org</a>>;
Robert Wilton <<a href="mailto:rwil...@cisco.com";
target="_blank">rwil...@cisco.com</a>>; Scott Mansfield
<scott.mansfi...@ericsson.com>; Tatiana Kurakova <<a
href="mailto:tatiana.kurak...@itu.int";
target="_blank">tatiana.kurak...@itu.int</a>>; Tianran Zhou <<a
href="mailto:zhoutian...@huawei.com";
target="_blank">zhoutian...@huawei.com</a>>; Warren Kumari <<a
href="mailto:war...@kumari.net";
target="_blank">war...@kumari.net</a>>;
<a href="mailto:itu-t-liai...@iab.org";
target="_blank">itu-t-liai...@iab.org</a>; <a
href="mailto:liaison-coordinat...@iab.org";
target="_blank">liaison-coordinat...@iab.org</a><br>
> Subject: New Liaison Statement, "LS on the consent of draft
Recommendation ITU-T Q.3962 (ex. Q.joint_tr) “Requirements and
Reference
Model for optimized traceroute of joint Internet
Protocol/Multi-Protocol
Label Switchingâ€"<br>
> <br>
> Title: LS on the consent of draft Recommendation ITU-T Q.3962
(ex.
Q.joint_tr) “Requirements and Reference Model for optimized traceroute
of joint Internet Protocol/Multi-Protocol Label Switchingâ€<br> >
Submission Date: 2023-10-24<br>
> URL of the IETF Web page: <a
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1869/"; rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1869/</a><br> >
<br>
> From: Denis ANDREEV <<a href="mailto:tsbs...@itu.int";
target="_blank">tsbs...@itu.int</a>><br>
> To: Henk Birkholz <<a
href="mailto:henk.birkh...@sit.fraunhofer.de";
target="_blank">henk.birkh...@sit.fraunhofer.de</a>>,Joe Clarke
<<a
href="mailto:jcla...@cisco.com";
target="_blank">jcla...@cisco.com</a>>,Tianran Zhou <<a
href="mailto:zhoutian...@huawei.com";
target="_blank">zhoutian...@huawei.com</a>><br>
> Cc: Robert Wilton <<a href="mailto:rwil...@cisco.com";
target="_blank">rwil...@cisco.com</a>>,Warren Kumari <<a
href="mailto:war...@kumari.net";
target="_blank">war...@kumari.net</a>>,<a
href="mailto:itu-t-liai...@iab.org";
target="_blank">itu-t-liai...@iab.org</a> <<a
href="mailto:itu-t-liai...@iab.org";
target="_blank">itu-t-liai...@iab.org</a>>,Joe Clarke <<a
href="mailto:jcla...@cisco.com";
target="_blank">jcla...@cisco.com</a>>,Scott Mansfield
<scott.mansfi...@ericsson.com>,Operations and Management Area
Working Group Discussion List <<a href="mailto:opsawg@ietf.org";
target="_blank">opsawg@ietf.org</a>>,Henk Birkholz <<a
href="mailto:henk.birkh...@sit.fraunhofer.de";
target="_blank">henk.birkh...@sit.fraunhofer.de</a>>,Tianran Zhou
<<a href="mailto:zhoutian...@huawei.com";
target="_blank">zhoutian...@huawei.com</a>> Response Contacts:
Tatiana
Kurakova <<a href="mailto:tatiana.kurak...@itu.int";
target="_blank">tatiana.kurak...@itu.int</a>> Technical Contacts:
<br>
> Purpose: For information<br>
> <br>
> Body: This liaison statement provides information about the
consented
item as a result of the ITU-T SG11 meeting (Geneva, 10-20 October
2023).<br>
> <br>
> ITU-T SG11 would like to inform ITU-T Study Group 13 and IETF
about
the draft new Recommendation ITU-T Q.3962 (ex. Q. joint_tr)
“Requirements and Reference Model for optimized traceroute of joint
Internet Protocol/Multi-Protocol Label Switching†which was consented
during the ITU-T SG11 meeting (Geneva, 10-20 October 2023).<br>
> <br>
> The draft new Recommendation ITU-T Q. 3962 (ex. Q. joint_tr)
“Requirements and Reference Model for optimized traceroute of joint
Internet Protocol/Multi-Protocol Label Switching†is attached for your
convenience.<br>
> ITU-T SG11 looks forward to collaborating with ITU-T Study Group
13
and IETF on this matter.<br>
> <br>
> Attachment:<br>
> SG11-TD747/GEN: Consent – draft Recommendation ITU-T Q.3962
(ex.
Q.joint_tr): Requirements and Reference Model for optimized traceroute
of
joint Internet Protocol/Multi-Protocol Label Switching (Geneva, 10-20
October 2023)<br>
> Attachments:<br>
> <br>
> SG11-LS108-Att-TD747<br>
> <a
href="
https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2023-10-24-itu-t-sg-11-opsawg-ls-on-the-consent-of-draft-recommendation-itu-t-q3962-ex-qjoint_tr-requirements-and-reference-model-for-optim-attachment-1.pdf
"
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2023-10-24-itu-t-sg-11-opsawg-ls-on-the-consent-of-draft-recommendation-itu-t-q3962-ex-qjoint_tr-requirements-and-reference-model-for-optim-attachment-1.pdf
</a><br>
> <br>
> SG11-LS108<br>
> <a
href="
https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2023-10-24-itu-t-sg-11-opsawg-ls-on-the-consent-of-draft-recommendation-itu-t-q3962-ex-qjoint_tr-requirements-and-reference-model-for-optim-attachment-2.docx
"
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2023-10-24-itu-t-sg-11-opsawg-ls-on-the-consent-of-draft-recommendation-itu-t-q3962-ex-qjoint_tr-requirements-and-reference-model-for-optim-attachment-2.docx
</a><br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> mpls mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:m...@ietf.org";
target="_blank">m...@ietf.org</a><br>
> <a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls";
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</a><br>
>
<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> mpls mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:m...@ietf.org";
target="_blank">m...@ietf.org</a><br>
> <a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls";
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
mpls mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:m...@ietf.org"; target="_blank">m...@ietf.org</a><br>
<a
href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls"; rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>mpls
mailing
list</span><br><span>m...@ietf.org</span><br><span>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
</span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>
