Re: so when did you switch from NT to unix for oracle

[Paul Vallee]

Hi Mogens,   What I wouldn't do to be a fly on that wall. Oh, the interesting discussions to be had! :-)   I too have thought long and hard about this industry trend, and it has remarkable ramifications that we should all be aware of.   One implication that you don't mention is the clear advantages of the federated shared-nothing architecture Microsoft currently has the lead in versus the shared-disk solutions that Oracle is an expert in. With a federated approach, you can afford to use "disposable" servers and provide excellent scalability. With cheaper machines and operating systems providing fantastic performance but substandard stability, a federated approach gets you out of the woods. I am hoping Oracle picks up on this soon.   However, I would like to voice my opinion that there is precious little missing from Linux. It used to be that the filesystems were lagging, but we've gotten excellent (I do not use that term lightly) performance from SGI's XFS filesystem. IBM's JFS is also available, as are some native filesystems. We run Linux in production for many customers, and where we do run into trouble, it's almost never as a result of the Linux. We do occasionally have difficulties because the hardware subsystems are not well-chosen and tuned to each other, however. Interestingly, the one company created to solve this problem, VAResearch, no longer creates hardware because it couldn't find a market. This vacuum is being quickly filled in by IBM and Dell, however.   Should a company be willing to spend a comparable amount annually with their Linux provider and their hardware provider that they would give to (for instance) Sun Support, I believe they could easily achieve comparable levels of hardware and software reliability than any other commercial unix.   Cheers, Paul     ----- Original Message ----- From: Mogens N�rgaard To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 1:18 PM Subject: Re: so when did you switch from NT to unix for oracle Maybe it's time to provoke a bit :-). Situation: I'm sitting here in Steve Adams' house (about 7 meters away from the IxOra server, which is SO small - just like the LITTLE mermaid in Copenhagen - very disappointing), and Anjo, Cary, Jonathan and the rest have gone to bed. Whiskies available on the oak table: Bowmore and Ardbeg. Provocative Thoughts (aimed at generating discussion, please): Basically a P4 processor can run circles round a Unix processor today (in other words: Unix processors are loosing the battle). A customer today would get most bang for the buck by bying Intel instead of Unix processors. The problem, of course, is that you can only choose between Windows and Linux on the Intel platform. If - this is no longer a choice - you could choose Solaris on Intel, you would get so much bang for the buck that nothing could compete with it. If Intel could handle many processors that would be interesting, too. I think Unix processors are dying. I didn't like it when VMS died (because it's the best operating system that was ever built). But it died. Now what? Mogens Hemant K Chitale wrote: Aah ! You _are_ looking at moving out of NT. Why I don't think it is an enterprise class platform 1. Much poorer memory management [2GB, memory leaks etc] than Unix. 2. Cannot scale beyond 4 CPUs. I AM surprised that you run a 450 users SAP application on 4CPU, 2GB on NT. Try that with Oracle Applications ! 3. Any patch (e.g. the security patches that come out from Microsoft) requires a reboot of the server. I can understand OS patches requiring a Unix reboot but a patch to MSIE/Outlook/IIS on the same NT-box as the database requiring a reboot of the server ? Unacceptable. 4. I don't know how good Online Backups are on NT. Hemant K Chitale http://hkchital.tripod.com ----- Original Message ----- To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <ORACLE-L@fa tcity.com> Sent: Saturday, 25 May, 2002 4:33 AM 1) Not pulling any legs. That's what we run. 2) We have a few reasons to switch to another platform. I'm lobbying for Solaris with Veritas Database Edition. Many good reasons for doing so, but I'm beginning to have my doubts about financing it. One of our current projects is to put in place an enterprise class backup and recovery system. The current one is lacking in several respects. One of damagement's questions: "What happens if we do nothing?" Another was "What's the ROI?" PHB's abound. Jared On Friday 24 May 2002 08:03, Hemant K Chitale wrote: No way ! You're pulling a lot of legs [and hurting a lot of egos who take pride in pointing out that NT is _not_ an enterprise-class platform, me included]. Hemant K Chitale ----- Original Message ----- To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, 24 May, 2002 8:00 AM How about 250 Gig, 450 users on SAP 4.0B? 4 Cpu's 2 Gig Ram. Stop making me defend NT!! Jared "Disser, Arno" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/23/2002 10:23 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc: for oracle Here are my 0.02EUR Turn this reasoning around: Why would anyone use NT for a serious Oracle DB-server? Okay, for some minor development perhaps, but for an production environment? b.t.w., ever considered a switch to VMS? Arno Disser -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Disser, Arno INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for ot her information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).