the Pope - eh? all these duhvelopers must be Catholic ;)
i feel for you Paula. this is a battle many shops fight (including this
one) and often it isn't easy to win. one suggestion - have your management
play the consultant game with them. hire an outside consultant to come in
and tell them the same things you've been saying. they'll believe the
consultant. everyone knows that consultants know way more than in-house
staff ;)
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 1:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
I understand what database modeling is for, the different types of
normalization and denormalization and the tradeoffs in different types of
systems and ultimately to the data access of the system driven (should be )
by the business requirements. The problem is I don't think anyone that does
development or provides COTS packages does and that negatively impacts my
ability as a DBA to ensure data integrity. I was wondering if I was missing
some boat. If anyone else was hitting this brick wall? If there is a way
to make this point clear. I was thinking of even doing a prototype - this
system versus that system - same app. code, same use of system, normalized
and then denormalized so I could show why the heck normalization and RI on
the database is the only real way to ensure data integrity. Then show all
the ways the database integrity could go wrong. I feel like I have to prove
why to use relational database design on a relational database engine built
specifically for that purpose -
GEEEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Does anyone have something
signed by the Pope to show that relational theory in a RDBMS is necessary?
I think that is what it really will take.
Oracle OCP DBA
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 9:29 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Paula
I think their use of the term "object-oriented" maybe be incorrect. That
said, some new converts to object-oriented get carried away. Some even want
to use Oracle in an object-oriented manner. In an effort to please everyone,
Oracle has even added object-oriented features to tables. I don't think they
are used much.
As Tom points out, the data model will need to support many purposes.
One is reporting. If you don't normalize your data model, then it will be
difficult or impossible to create reports.
Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 6:14 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Guys,
The emphasis in many places I have worked is developing quick and dirty
systems as quickly as possible and working with developers that don't seem
to have very much understanding of Relational Database Theory but who prefer
to program using flat files in relational databases - calling it
"object-oriented" when it truly is not. Let us just say that it is highly
denormalized. As a DBA I care about data integrity, extensibility and
scalability but the up and coming esp. SQL Server developer types seem to
operate in a world where this doesn't matter - just buy more hardware,
denormalize to make the programming easier, etc.
I have been losing this battle.
So - what is your experience with this?
What about the idea of having everyone access all objects in the views so
that if need be the DBA's could in fact still make physical changes to the
schemas without a large amount of rewriting of code? - as a standard
Living without normalization for most things - esp. small systems and w/o
fk's except as they are maintained in the application for the sake of
getting the application done quickly, cheaply.
It turns my stomach but then I wonder about my own sanity - am I making too
much out of nothing? What about these stovepipe systems?
Case in-point 100,000 row table for asset management - moving different
types of addresses to a separate address table and moving different types of
people to a person table. Developers are aghast at the performance
implications. I am thinking perf. implications not real esp. with small
amount but provides extensibility and RI with these reference tables instead
of denorma. in multiple tables. They say mostly batch inserts/updates and
batch reads - but then they say some OLTP. This is a SQL Server database.
I think the separate reference tables provides only way for extensibility
and data integrity. I say I will write for them a joined view. They say
perf. implications. - AARRRGGHH!
Oracle OCP DBA
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