Καλημέρα σε όλους και όλες, Το ξαναστέλνω στην παρέα μας γιατί έκανα λάθος και έφυγε από την άλλη μου διεύθυνση. Σε μία λίστα που ανήκω, μου έστειλαν το σύνδεσμο για ένα πρόγραμμα του BBC σχετικά με την Ελλάδα του 20ού αιώνα. Πρέπει να μπορείτε να καταλάβετα καλά Αγγλικά, και σας προειδοποιώ ότι είναι για γερά στομάχια και πολύ καλό, παρ’ όλο που αισθάνομαι ότι, ίσως, λίγο τονίζει περισσότερο την Ελληνική αριστερά από τους αντίστοιχους δεξιούς. Καλημερίζω σας, Τάκης
From: John SAVAGE Date: Πέμπτη, 10 Μαΐου 2012 10:04 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ncwfsa] Greeks and Turks. Takis, that link is fine. You could try http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00hg8dq/episodes/player If you can get to that page, keep hitting 4 till the heading "Greece: An Unquiet History". Enter on the "Listen now" link below that. If that doesn't work, get back to me. John. ----- Original Message ----- From: Panagiotis Antonopoulos To: mailto:ncwfsa%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:40 PM Subject: Re: [ncwfsa] Greeks and Turks. Hi John/all, For some reason this url appears to be crushing my computer. Is it valid, or does it need something? Cheers, Takis From: John SAVAGE Date: ΤÏίÏ"η, 8 ÎoαÎοÏ. 2012 10:48 To: mailto:ncwfsa%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ncwfsa] Greeks and Turks. Rory/Takis/all, a sleuth on the radio listeners list (definitely not a group) has kindly tracked down the programme I mentioned, in the Archive on 4 series. Archived indefinitely at http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01dtdcb Synopsis: Maria Margaronis asks if the spectre of Greece's unstable past is haunting its current nightmares. Culturally at Europe's heart, geographically at its edge, Greece has always been pulled and pushed by the contradictory needs of the big powers. Maria looks back through the turbulent 20th Century that saw Greece suffer multiple national schisms. Beginning with the 1922 crisis of defeat against Turkey and the subsequent mass refugee influx that swelled Greece's population by around a fifth. War brought Nazi occupation that would last from 1941 to 1944 and led to compromise, collaboration and resistance that brought terrible reprisals, the virtual extermination of Greece's ancient Jewish communities & destruction for many villages. Those years would lead directly to the enduring trauma of Civil War. The central event for Margaronis that divided and still divides Greek society and memory. It saw Greek's fighting their former British allies in the streets of Athens in December 1944 and led to atrocities on both Left and Right and finally wholesale repression and exile of the Left after their defeat. Silence and then dictatorship and Junta from 1967 to 1974 would continue to divide society. The return of democracy and the rise of the PASOC party led to a different sort of memory, the unquestioning heroization of the wartime resistance and the celebration of Left wing memory that obscured painful questions of what Greeks had done to Greeks. Entry into Europe was potentially both a celebration of progress and a safe haven for Greek identity. The recent financial crisis has made Greeks once again deeply divided about both Europe and their own history. The divisions remain and consciously or unconsciously, history is informing that debate. ----- Original Message ----- From: rory Heap To: mailto:ncwfsa%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 8:52 AM Subject: RE: [ncwfsa] Greeks and Turks. John, my Father was in the 2nd paratroops regiment who were deployed to "mop up" the Greek (communist) resistance. The hand to hand street fighting was so atrocious he would not talk about it at all! Rory -----Original Message----- From: mailto:ncwfsa%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:ncwfsa%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John SAVAGE Sent: 07 May 2012 06:33 To: mailto:ncwfsa%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ncwfsa] Greeks and Turks. One shouldn't generalise of course. I know a charming Swiss lady. And a certain Mr Federer seems like a decent sort of bloke. Not that long ago Radio 4 broadcast a programme all about Britain's involvement in the Greek civil war towards the end of WWII. I'll let you know if I can track it down. John. ----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Taylor To: mailto:ncwfsa%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:ncwfsa%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 7:51 AM Subject: Re: [ncwfsa] Greeks and Turks. and they're so boring and dour that they certainly, in my humble opinion, don't deserve that beautiful country they live in. Judy T. ----- Original Message ----- From: Geoff Long To: mailto:ncwfsa%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:ncwfsa%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 11:11 PM Subject: Re: [ncwfsa] Greeks and Turks. Hi Harvey, the Swiss get on well because until very recently, their country has been a safe place for nations, criminals, tax evaders and many others to hide their ill gotten cash, diamonds, art treasures, and the rest. They have also been canny enough to persuade all the major European countries that it's to their advantage to have a neutral country, where spies, negotiators, government representatives et al. can meet in relative safety. Cheers Geoff. At 21:48 03/05/2012, you wrote: > > >Believe me, Roger, I hold no brief for communists, fascists or even most of >the groups in between! The question that buzzes around in my brain is this: > >Why have the British, and before them the English, and before them the >Normans, repeatedly interfered in the affairs of other peoples? Naturally, >our home bred propagandists would have us believe we do it for noble, >altruistic reasons. We spread civilisation; the rule of law; even, >especially lately, we see ourselves as the bringers of "freedom". That makes >us all feel warm and patriotic. It's just that I have this feeling that our >true motives in past and present are more venal. A small coterie of people >in the UK have become very rich indeed as a result of all this poking into >other folks' business, and they haven't exactly shared the spoils with the >rest of the community. > >How is it, finally, that there are some nations in Europe who seem to get >along very well without trying to boss the world about? I'm thinking of the >Swiss; the Scandanavians (if you draw a line under King Gustavus). > >I pose these questions in a spirit of enquiry, not contention. > >Harvey > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Roger Duclaud-Williams" ><<mailto:r.duclaudwilliams%40btinternet.com>mailto:r.duclaudwilliams%40btinternet.co m <mailto:r.duclaudwilliams%40btinternet.com> > >To: <<mailto:ncwfsa%40yahoogroups.com>mailto:ncwfsa%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:ncwfsa%40yahoogroups.com> > >Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 12:00 PM >Subject: Re: [ncwfsa] Greeks and Turks. > >You are quite right Harvey. We dod ntervene in >the greek civil war. But as to the merits of that >interventin I could say a lotmore. The greek >communists were a pritty awful bunch, not that >the other side was necessarily free from fault. >Roger >At 20:16 17/04/2012, you wrote: > > > > > >A propos Greece at the end of WWW2, Roger, I believe the part played by > >Churchill and MacMillan is, to say the least, open to question. At one > >point, British troops opened fire on Greek partisans, who had faught the > >occupying Germans, because His Majesty's Government in London was haunted > >by > >the fear of a communist take-over in Greece. A great deal merkier than > >Never > >on a Tuesday! > > > >Harvey > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Roger Duclaud-Williams" > ><<mailto:r.duclaudwilliams%40btinternet.com>r.d > mailto:uclaudwilliams%40btinternet.com > <mailto:uclaudwilliams%40btinternet.com> > > >To: <<mailto:ncwfsa%40yahoogroups.com>mailto:ncwfsa%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:ncwfsa%40yahoogroups.com> > > >Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 6:05 PM > >Subject: [ncwfsa] Greeks and Turks. > > > >: This is really mostly for Takis but othersmay have comments. I am > >: reading at the moment, Alistair Horn's official biography of Harold > >: Macmillan. During the closing years of the second world war, > >: Macmillan had important responsibilites for british and allied policy > >: in the mediterranian, including Greece and Italy. Horn relates that, > >: as the british were bringing a would-be greek provisional government > >: to Pyreus, they happened to arrivew on a Tuesday. He then says, in my > >: view implausibly, that the greek contingent refused to disembark on > >: the Tuesday because it had been on a Tuesday, in 1453, that > >: Constantinople had been lost to the Turks. They felt, so Horn says, > >: that nothing begun on a Tuesday could ever come to a favourable > >: outcome. Do you think they were really so superstitious Takis? > >: Roger > >: > >: > > > > > > > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 >Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7109 (20120503) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > ><http://www.eset.com>http://www.eset.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________ NOD32 7116 (20120507) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __._,_.___ Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (24) Recent Activity: a.. 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