Hi, On 9/5/06, Martin Heidegger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I would rather say something like: this. Fuck this looks more like flash > than everything on osflash.
Point taken. No long list of osflash-hosted projects or info all over the place. > yours > Martin. > > 2006/9/5, Tim Scollick < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > Ray, > > > > I'm not saying that it's difficult to use OSFlash tools, I'm merely > stating that lacking documentation that considers more than one technology > at a time (tools and code) creates a barrier to using the tools. Think > about what Carlos' article about getting started did for OSFlash over a year > ago. It was helpful because it gave you a step by step process to get > things running fast with MTASC, swfmill and ASDT. But you have to go off > OSFlash to find it. > > > > Open source projects are generally more difficult to get going than > commercial products and developers are accepting of that fact. However, the > most successful OS projects do a great job at this 'getting started' stuff > (Haxe comes to mind). Ruby on Rails isn't better than a lot of web > frameworks. It gets it's a lot of it's buzz because when you go to the > homepage, you can click one of three buttons to get started. Twenty minutes > later, you're at hello world. > > > > I just thought of this now, but maybe OSFlash needs a page like this > linked from a big icon on the main OSFlash page. What do you guys think? > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Tim > > > > > > > > > > > > On 9/5/06, Ray Chuan < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > On 9/5/06, Tim Scollick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I'm also in this boat, Ralf. Look at how many java developers are > piling on > > > > Flex, most of whom have never learned the Flash IDE. You could do the > same > > > > thing now with OSFlash tools (ASDT or FlashDevelop) and ActionStep or > > > > ASWing, but the learning curve is very steep because 'getting started' > > > > guides are difficult to find. > > > > > > Are you referring to code or tools? Granted, code may be more > > > difficult without "getting started" guides, but tools are rather > > > easier. You can guess what it does by running it without any options > > > or /? or --help. > > > > > > > > > > > On 9/5/06, hank williams < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I agree with mark on this. > > > > > > > > > > Hank > > > > > > > > > > On 9/5/06, Mark Winterhalder < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Yes, the Flash IDE makes it much easier to understand the > principles > > > > > > we consider basic -- after all, you've got them visually in front > of > > > > > > you, can experiment with MovieClip hierarchies easily, and so on. > But > > > > > > it's not always an option, and not always necessary. > > > > > > I don't see the osflash projects as a mere extension to the Adobe > > > > > > tools. Depending on what you want to do and what kind of > background > > > > > > you have, they can be a true alternative. In any case, whe > shouldn't > > > > > > lock out developers without a "classical" Flash background. > > > > > > Of course every prominent developer started with the Flash IDE -- > > > > > > until recently there was no viable alternative if you wanted to > > > > > > produce an SWF. Well, thinking about it, I don't know if you > consider > > > > > > Daniel prominent, but if MTASC hadn't given him the opportunity to > > > > > > create SWFs on Linux, he wouldn't have gotten into it and wouldn't > > > > > > have come up with swfmill. His experience with the IDE is limited > to > > > > > > downloading the trial and then never using it because he didn't > like > > > > > > to reboot to Windows. > > > > > > What I'm trying to say is that we can only gain from opening up to > > > > > > developers from other backgrounds without insisting on them > learning > > > > > > it the classical way, just because "it was always done like that". > The > > > > > > threshold should be as low as possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 9/5/06, Ralf Bokelberg < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > Hm, it was always my understanding, that osflash grew out of the > need > > > > > > > for tools, which Macromedia/Adobe couldn't oder didn't want to > > > > > > > provide. Naturally these tools are not for beginners. That's > what the > > > > > > > Flash ide is for. I think, if you never get your hands dirty in > the > > > > > > > Flash ide, you are missing something, esspecially as a beginner. > Every > > > > > > > prominent developer started with the flash ide. Remember, it's > not > > > > > > > that i want to sell the Flash ide. It's about learning and > > > > > > > understanding the whole concept of flash, eg. timelines, frames, > etc. > > > > > > > I think, if you never worked with the Flash ide, you'll never > > > > > > > understand Flash completely. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So the point is, people should start with the Flash ide, and if > they > > > > > > > encounter serious problems in their workflow, they should come > back to > > > > > > > osflash and see, what solutions are provided. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > Ralf. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > osflash mailing list > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > osflash mailing list > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > osflash mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Cheers, > > > Ray Chuan > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > osflash mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > osflash mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org > > > > > > > > > > > -- > ICQ: 117662935 > Skype: mastakaneda > _______________________________________________ > osflash mailing list > [email protected] > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org > > > -- Cheers, Ray Chuan _______________________________________________ osflash mailing list [email protected] http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
