Well - still no statement of Aral ...
yours
Martin.
2006/9/5, Tim Scollick <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
It's funny how I felt compelled to write three paragraphs but Martin got the point across 10 times better with two short sentences and one well placed expletive. Nice work, Martin.
I guess the question to put to the community is whether OSFlash is a real platform or just a large collection of dynamite tools for Flash. Maybe Haxe is the platform and the 'marketing' time would be better spent there.On 9/5/06, Ray Chuan < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Hi,
On 9/5/06, Martin Heidegger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would rather say something like: this. Fuck this looks more like flash
> than everything on osflash.
Point taken. No long list of osflash-hosted projects or info all over the place.
> yours
> Martin.
>
> 2006/9/5, Tim Scollick < [EMAIL PROTECTED] >:
> >
> > Ray,
> >
> > I'm not saying that it's difficult to use OSFlash tools, I'm merely
> stating that lacking documentation that considers more than one technology
> at a time (tools and code) creates a barrier to using the tools. Think
> about what Carlos' article about getting started did for OSFlash over a year
> ago. It was helpful because it gave you a step by step process to get
> things running fast with MTASC, swfmill and ASDT. But you have to go off
> OSFlash to find it.
> >
> > Open source projects are generally more difficult to get going than
> commercial products and developers are accepting of that fact. However, the
> most successful OS projects do a great job at this 'getting started' stuff
> (Haxe comes to mind). Ruby on Rails isn't better than a lot of web
> frameworks. It gets it's a lot of it's buzz because when you go to the
> homepage, you can click one of three buttons to get started. Twenty minutes
> later, you're at hello world.
> >
> > I just thought of this now, but maybe OSFlash needs a page like this
> linked from a big icon on the main OSFlash page. What do you guys think?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 9/5/06, Ray Chuan < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > On 9/5/06, Tim Scollick < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > I'm also in this boat, Ralf. Look at how many java developers are
> piling on
> > > > Flex, most of whom have never learned the Flash IDE. You could do the
> same
> > > > thing now with OSFlash tools (ASDT or FlashDevelop) and ActionStep or
> > > > ASWing, but the learning curve is very steep because 'getting started'
> > > > guides are difficult to find.
> > >
> > > Are you referring to code or tools? Granted, code may be more
> > > difficult without "getting started" guides, but tools are rather
> > > easier. You can guess what it does by running it without any options
> > > or /? or --help.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > On 9/5/06, hank williams < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > I agree with mark on this.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hank
> > > > >
> > > > > On 9/5/06, Mark Winterhalder < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > Yes, the Flash IDE makes it much easier to understand the
> principles
> > > > > > we consider basic -- after all, you've got them visually in front
> of
> > > > > > you, can experiment with MovieClip hierarchies easily, and so on.
> But
> > > > > > it's not always an option, and not always necessary.
> > > > > > I don't see the osflash projects as a mere extension to the Adobe
> > > > > > tools. Depending on what you want to do and what kind of
> background
> > > > > > you have, they can be a true alternative. In any case, whe
> shouldn't
> > > > > > lock out developers without a "classical" Flash background.
> > > > > > Of course every prominent developer started with the Flash IDE --
> > > > > > until recently there was no viable alternative if you wanted to
> > > > > > produce an SWF. Well, thinking about it, I don't know if you
> consider
> > > > > > Daniel prominent, but if MTASC hadn't given him the opportunity to
> > > > > > create SWFs on Linux, he wouldn't have gotten into it and wouldn't
> > > > > > have come up with swfmill. His experience with the IDE is limited
> to
> > > > > > downloading the trial and then never using it because he didn't
> like
> > > > > > to reboot to Windows.
> > > > > > What I'm trying to say is that we can only gain from opening up to
> > > > > > developers from other backgrounds without insisting on them
> learning
> > > > > > it the classical way, just because "it was always done like that".
> The
> > > > > > threshold should be as low as possible.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mark
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 9/5/06, Ralf Bokelberg < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > > Hm, it was always my understanding, that osflash grew out of the
> need
> > > > > > > for tools, which Macromedia/Adobe couldn't oder didn't want to
> > > > > > > provide. Naturally these tools are not for beginners. That's
> what the
> > > > > > > Flash ide is for. I think, if you never get your hands dirty in
> the
> > > > > > > Flash ide, you are missing something, esspecially as a beginner.
> Every
> > > > > > > prominent developer started with the flash ide. Remember, it's
> not
> > > > > > > that i want to sell the Flash ide. It's about learning and
> > > > > > > understanding the whole concept of flash, eg. timelines, frames,
> etc.
> > > > > > > I think, if you never worked with the Flash ide, you'll never
> > > > > > > understand Flash completely.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So the point is, people should start with the Flash ide, and if
> they
> > > > > > > encounter serious problems in their workflow, they should come
> back to
> > > > > > > osflash and see, what solutions are provided.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > Ralf.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > osflash mailing list
> > > > > > [email protected]
> > > > > >
> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > [email protected]
> > > > >
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > [email protected]
> > > >
> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Cheers,
> > > Ray Chuan
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > osflash mailing list
> > > [email protected]
> > > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > [email protected]
> > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
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--
Cheers,
Ray Chuan
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