With regard to this question from Alex: "And the question is why there is no solution. I see only two reasons - either OSGi experts didn't take necessary measures or their requirements were ignored."
The JSR 376 Expert Group only had one requirement with regard to OSGi... that JPMS should not break OSGi. Since OSGi uses only standard Java SE APIs and features, then breaking OSGi would have meant breaking backwards compatibility of the Java platform. Oracle did not wish to do that and they have not done that. Therefore you can absolutely continue to run OSGi applications on a Java 9 platform which includes JPMS. Actual interoperability between JPMS and OSGi was not part of the requirements for JPMS (see http://openjdk.java.net/projects/jigsaw/spec/reqs/). I was a member of the Expert Group for JSR 376 but the spec lead would not permit any discussion of changing the requirements to support interop with OSGi or any other module system.. That was the case for the duration of my tenure on the EG as well as that of Peter Kriens who was representing the OSGi community before me. As BJ points out, Jigsaw was a moving target until very late in the specification process. Features such as open modules and automatic modules were added or finalised only a couple of months ago. It would have been premature for OSGi to begin design work based on an earlier version of Jigsaw, as that work would have been made obsolete by now. Regards, Neil On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 1:41 PM, BJ Hargrave <hargr...@us.ibm.com> wrote: > Part of the issue is that JPMS design was a moving target. Until Java 9 > ships, the design was changing. So OSGi had no final design to consider. > Once Java 9 is shipped and JPMS design is final, then OSGi experts can > consider what, if anything, needs to be specified by OSGi. I cannot promise > what will be decided nor when. > > Since the OSGi experts fully expected OSGi to run unchanged on top of the > Java 9 runtime, like the vast majority of existing Java applications, there > was no worry that OSGi would be rendered inoperative by Java 9. > -- > > BJ Hargrave > Senior Technical Staff Member, IBM // office: +1 386 848 1781 > <(386)%20848-1781> > OSGi Fellow and CTO of the OSGi Alliance // mobile: +1 386 848 3788 > <(386)%20848-3788> > hargr...@us.ibm.com > > > > ----- Original message ----- > From: Alex Sviridov <ooo_satu...@mail.ru> > Sent by: osgi-dev-boun...@mail.osgi.org > To: osgi-dev <osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org> > Cc: > Subject: Re: [osgi-dev] OSGi and Java 9 > Date: Fri, Sep 8, 2017 8:23 AM > > Thank you very much for your answer. This is very useful information. > > You say that "there is no answer for that at this time". Can you say > approximately > when official OSGi answer will appear? > > To tell the truth the situation seems to be strange for me. I will explain > why. It was > known years ago that Java 9 would support modules using Jigsaw. When I > learned > about it of course I was not glad but I thought that OSGi experts of > course would > think and work for compatibility. Because as I understand there is Java > Community > Process and I was sure that OSGi experts will be the most active persons > there. > > However, Java 9 is almost here but there is no answer. I've read many > articles > but all they say that suggested solutions can not be considered for > production. > And the question is why there is no solution. I see only two reasons - > either > OSGi experts didn't take necessary measures or their requirements were > ignored. > > I am saying all this not to blame someone! I am saying all this trying to > understand > the situation and the future/perspective of OSGi platform (all our > products are on OSGi). > Could anyone give information about the situation? > > Best regards, Alex > > > Четверг, 7 сентября 2017, 23:31 +03:00 от "BJ Hargrave" < > hargr...@us.ibm.com>: > > > I am sorry I could not help you more. I don't have a detailed checklist of > things to do. > > What I am saying is that JPMS and OSGi can operate at different layers. > They do not need to interact. Java 9 runtime classes are loaded by JPMS > modules and then an existing application can run on top of that using > -classpath just like on Java 8. An OSGi-based application can also run > there. Think of it like JPMS runs the -bootclasspath while OSGi runs on the > -classpath above the -bootclasspath. > > So both technologies can exist in the same VM this way. JPMS and OSGi > don't have to be friends in this situation. They just need to not interfere > with each other :-) > > If you are asking about how you can install JPMS modules in an OSGi > framework just like bundles, then there is no answer for that at this time > that I am aware of. > -- > > BJ Hargrave > Senior Technical Staff Member, IBM // office: +1 386 848 1781 > <(386)%20848-1781> > OSGi Fellow and CTO of the OSGi Alliance // mobile: +1 386 848 3788 > <(386)%20848-3788> > hargr...@us.ibm.com > > > > ----- Original message ----- > From: Alex Sviridov <ooo_satu...@mail.ru> > Sent by: osgi-dev-boun...@mail.osgi.org > To: osgi-dev <osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org> > Cc: > Subject: Re: [osgi-dev] OSGi and Java 9 > Date: Thu, Sep 7, 2017 4:05 PM > > > Thank you very much for your answer. However, it is absolutely not what I > asked. > I didn't ask about warnings. I asked about principles how to work with > both technologies > at the same time. This is the main reason I started this thread in this > mailing list. > > I am not OSGi expert/developer. I am OSGi user. I wrote to this mailing > list to get > clear technical solutions how to make JPMS and OSGi friends. I tell the > truth - > advices "set some options to ignore some messages" is not what I am > looking for. > > Best regards, Alex > > > > Четверг, 7 сентября 2017, 22:25 +03:00 от "BJ Hargrave" < > hargr...@us.ibm.com>: > > You may need to set some options to ignore some warnings. But your OSGi > based application should run fine just like other existing apps (assuming > you don't use Java internals which Java 9 hides). > -- > > BJ Hargrave > Senior Technical Staff Member, IBM // office: +1 386 848 1781 > <(386)%20848-1781> > OSGi Fellow and CTO of the OSGi Alliance // mobile: +1 386 848 3788 > <(386)%20848-3788> > hargr...@us.ibm.com > > > > ----- Original message ----- > From: Alex Sviridov <ooo_satu...@mail.ru> > Sent by: osgi-dev-boun...@mail.osgi.org > To: osgi-dev <osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org> > Cc: > Subject: Re: [osgi-dev] OSGi and Java 9 > Date: Thu, Sep 7, 2017 1:26 PM > > Thank you very much for your answer. It is good news. Could you give any > information > HOW to use OSGi on Java 9? Should I totally ignore JPMS (use any switches > to > permit/disable etc) or should I delegate JPMS some tasks (which?) and > delegate > OSGI other tasks (which?)? > > Best regards, Alex > > > > Четверг, 7 сентября 2017, 20:01 +03:00 от "BJ Hargrave" < > hargr...@us.ibm.com>: > > You can use OSGi on Java 9. Just like any other Java program. While the > Java runtime class libraries are modularized with the Java Platform Module > System (JPMS), your application running on the Java runtime can remain > modularized by OSGi. OSGi is not going to stop working on Java 9 :-) In > other words, -classpath applications will not stop working on Java 9. > > Now, there may be some blips and bugs in code that will need to be > addressed for Java 9, that can happen with each new major Java release. > -- > > BJ Hargrave > Senior Technical Staff Member, IBM // office: +1 386 848 1781 > <(386)%20848-1781> > OSGi Fellow and CTO of the OSGi Alliance // mobile: +1 386 848 3788 > <(386)%20848-3788> > hargr...@us.ibm.com > > > > ----- Original message ----- > From: Alex Sviridov <ooo_satu...@mail.ru> > Sent by: osgi-dev-boun...@mail.osgi.org > To: osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org > Cc: > Subject: [osgi-dev] OSGi and Java 9 > Date: Thu, Sep 7, 2017 12:22 PM > > Hello, everyone > > Java 9 is about to be released. The main problem is Java 9 modular system > because it seems > to be strange to support two modular systems in one product - I mean Java > 9 modular system > and OSGi. > > What should OSGI users do now with current their products on OSGI? Not to > use Java 9 and > all future Java versions? Or there are other solutions how to work with > OSGI on Java 9? > > I have found some articles in internet but I would like to hear answer > from OSGi > developers and OSGi experts. I would be thankful for any information. > > Best regards, Alex > _______________________________________________ > OSGi Developer Mail List > osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mail. > osgi.org_mailman_listinfo_osgi-2Ddev&d=DwICAg&c=jf_ > iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=p-HkGsKTJWWSiO-pz0kKXl8ALzmlqvUGeFfgHUZX8ms& > m=xoyDnjWrU3zp8TRG6OOWJMt_kH0AvIDxQhMC12LNc8w&s= > xOKa7s31l9Lf_pHbmjDcB8-8PfdqK-Ua34oJY8fo0DA&e= > > > > > > -- > Alex Sviridov > _______________________________________________ > OSGi Developer Mail List > osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mail. > osgi.org_mailman_listinfo_osgi-2Ddev&d=DwICAg&c=jf_ > iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=p-HkGsKTJWWSiO-pz0kKXl8ALzmlqvUGeFfgHUZX8ms&m= > Qx0S7sLQPhkNPJQ3kzt9FAx1EuhZA2ExnFKDJIJ4EbI&s=NRmVxnQ2M8- > 6zPxS7oXGeD3lRUD8PVlU2_lZ_S16Els&e= > > > > > > -- > Alex Sviridov > _______________________________________________ > OSGi Developer Mail List > osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mail. > osgi.org_mailman_listinfo_osgi-2Ddev&d=DwICAg&c=jf_ > iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=p-HkGsKTJWWSiO-pz0kKXl8ALzmlqvUGeFfgHUZX8ms&m= > 389EU840o6121819OqxhALsWNubvLI1g_es7IiG4G5k&s= > R3lTgAJpQRwMhJYbRIZwzKQvM3fpiCxn1RU7RtxjJug&e= > > > > > > -- > Alex Sviridov > _______________________________________________ > OSGi Developer Mail List > osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mail. > osgi.org_mailman_listinfo_osgi-2Ddev&d=DwICAg&c=jf_ > iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=p-HkGsKTJWWSiO-pz0kKXl8ALzmlqvUGeFfgHUZX8ms&m= > QSo9jUq2Febn5EnIr1rEVNa0ldeda-ffscXJRnEKIZk&s=4YB9Mn0- > BtjkS1j9fbzK-4pn5baLbRWl7TYI_H36Kn8&e= > > > > > _______________________________________________ > OSGi Developer Mail List > osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org > https://mail.osgi.org/mailman/listinfo/osgi-dev >
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