This is very interesting. Could you explain the reason why spec lead didn't permit any discussion about OSGI support? Was this official Oracle position? It is difficult to understand - GlassFish is totally on OSGI. What will they do with it?
Best regards, Alex >Пятница, 8 сентября 2017, 16:17 +03:00 от Neil Bartlett ><njbartl...@gmail.com>: > >With regard to this question from Alex: " And the question is why there is no >solution. I see only two reasons - either OSGi experts didn't take necessary >measures or their requirements were ignored." > >The JSR 376 Expert Group only had one requirement with regard to OSGi... that >JPMS should not break OSGi. Since OSGi uses only standard Java SE APIs and >features, then breaking OSGi would have meant breaking backwards compatibility >of the Java platform. Oracle did not wish to do that and they have not done >that. Therefore you can absolutely continue to run OSGi applications on a >Java 9 platform which includes JPMS. > >Actual interoperability between JPMS and OSGi was not part of the requirements >for JPMS (see http://openjdk.java.net/projects/jigsaw/spec/reqs/ ). I was a >member of the Expert Group for JSR 376 but the spec lead would not permit any >discussion of changing the requirements to support interop with OSGi or any >other module system.. That was the case for the duration of my tenure on the >EG as well as that of Peter Kriens who was representing the OSGi community >before me. > >As BJ points out, Jigsaw was a moving target until very late in the >specification process. Features such as open modules and automatic modules >were added or finalised only a couple of months ago. It would have been >premature for OSGi to begin design work based on an earlier version of Jigsaw, >as that work would have been made obsolete by now. > >Regards, >Neil > > >On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 1:41 PM, BJ Hargrave < hargr...@us.ibm.com > wrote: >>Part of the issue is that JPMS design was a moving target. Until Java 9 >>ships, the design was changing. So OSGi had no final design to consider. Once >>Java 9 is shipped and JPMS design is final, then OSGi experts can consider >>what, if anything, needs to be specified by OSGi. I cannot promise what will >>be decided nor when. >> >>Since the OSGi experts fully expected OSGi to run unchanged on top of the >>Java 9 runtime, like the vast majority of existing Java applications, there >>was no worry that OSGi would be rendered inoperative by Java 9. >>-- >> >>BJ Hargrave >>Senior Technical Staff Member, IBM // office: +1 386 848 1781 >>OSGi Fellow and CTO of the OSGi Alliance // mobile: +1 386 848 3788 >>hargr...@us.ibm.com >> >> >>>----- Original message ----- >>>From: Alex Sviridov < ooo_satu...@mail.ru > >>>Sent by: osgi-dev-boun...@mail.osgi.org >>>To: osgi-dev < osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org > >>>Cc: >>>Subject: Re: [osgi-dev] OSGi and Java 9 >>>Date: Fri, Sep 8, 2017 8:23 AM >>> >>>Thank you very much for your answer. This is very useful information. >>> >>>You say that "there is no answer for that at this time". Can you say >>>approximately >>>when official OSGi answer will appear? >>> >>>To tell the truth the situation seems to be strange for me. I will explain >>>why. It was >>>known years ago that Java 9 would support modules using Jigsaw. When I >>>learned >>>about it of course I was not glad but I thought that OSGi experts of course >>>would >>>think and work for compatibility . Because as I understand there is Java >>>Community >>>Process and I was sure that OSGi experts will be the most active persons >>>there. >>> >>>However, Java 9 is almost here but there is no answer. I've read many >>>articles >>>but all they say that suggested solutions can not be considered for >>>production. >>>And the question is why there is no solution. I see only two reasons - either >>>OSGi experts didn't take necessary measures or their requirements were >>>ignored. >>> >>>I am saying all this not to blame someone! I am saying all this trying to >>>understand >>>the situation and the future/perspective of OSGi platform (all our products >>>are on OSGi). >>>Could anyone give information about the situation? >>> >>>Best regards, Alex >>> >>>>Четверг, 7 сентября 2017, 23:31 +03:00 от "BJ Hargrave" < >>>>hargr...@us.ibm.com >: >>>> >>>> >>>>I am sorry I could not help you more. I don't have a detailed checklist of >>>>things to do. >>>> >>>>What I am saying is that JPMS and OSGi can operate at different layers. >>>>They do not need to interact. Java 9 runtime classes are loaded by JPMS >>>>modules and then an existing application can run on top of that using >>>>-classpath just like on Java 8. An OSGi-based application can also run >>>>there. Think of it like JPMS runs the -bootclasspath while OSGi runs on the >>>>-classpath above the -bootclasspath. >>>> >>>>So both technologies can exist in the same VM this way. JPMS and OSGi don't >>>>have to be friends in this situation. They just need to not interfere with >>>>each other :-) >>>> >>>>If you are asking about how you can install JPMS modules in an OSGi >>>>framework just like bundles, then there is no answer for that at this time >>>>that I am aware of. >>>>-- >>>> >>>>BJ Hargrave >>>>Senior Technical Staff Member, IBM // office: +1 386 848 1781 >>>>OSGi Fellow and CTO of the OSGi Alliance // mobile: +1 386 848 3788 >>>>hargr...@us.ibm.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>----- Original message ----- >>>>>From: Alex Sviridov < ooo_satu...@mail.ru > >>>>>Sent by: osgi-dev-boun...@mail.osgi.org >>>>>To: osgi-dev < osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org > >>>>>Cc: >>>>>Subject: Re: [osgi-dev] OSGi and Java 9 >>>>>Date: Thu, Sep 7, 2017 4:05 PM >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thank you very much for your answer. However, it is absolutely not what I >>>>>asked. >>>>>I didn't ask about warnings. I asked about principles how to work with >>>>>both technologies >>>>>at the same time. This is the main reason I started this thread in this >>>>>mailing list. >>>>> >>>>>I am not OSGi expert/developer. I am OSGi user. I wrote to this mailing >>>>>list to get >>>>>clear technical solutions how to make JPMS and OSGi friends. I tell the >>>>>truth - >>>>>advices "set some options to ignore some messages" is not what I am >>>>>looking for. >>>>> >>>>>Best regards, Alex >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Четверг, 7 сентября 2017, 22:25 +03:00 от "BJ Hargrave" < >>>>>>hargr...@us.ibm.com >: >>>>>> >>>>>>You may need to set some options to ignore some warnings. But your OSGi >>>>>>based application should run fine just like other existing apps (assuming >>>>>>you don't use Java internals which Java 9 hides). >>>>>>-- >>>>>> >>>>>>BJ Hargrave >>>>>>Senior Technical Staff Member, IBM // office: +1 386 848 1781 >>>>>>OSGi Fellow and CTO of the OSGi Alliance // mobile: +1 386 848 3788 >>>>>>hargr...@us.ibm.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>----- Original message ----- >>>>>>>From: Alex Sviridov < ooo_satu...@mail.ru > >>>>>>>Sent by: osgi-dev-boun...@mail.osgi.org >>>>>>>To: osgi-dev < osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org > >>>>>>>Cc: >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [osgi-dev] OSGi and Java 9 >>>>>>>Date: Thu, Sep 7, 2017 1:26 PM >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Thank you very much for your answer. It is good news. Could you give any >>>>>>>information >>>>>>>HOW to use OSGi on Java 9? Should I totally ignore JPMS (use any >>>>>>>switches to >>>>>>>permit/disable etc) or should I delegate JPMS some tasks (which?) and >>>>>>>delegate >>>>>>>OSGI other tasks (which?)? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Best regards, Alex >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Четверг, 7 сентября 2017, 20:01 +03:00 от "BJ Hargrave" < >>>>>>>>hargr...@us.ibm.com >: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>You can use OSGi on Java 9. Just like any other Java program. While the >>>>>>>>Java runtime class libraries are modularized with the Java Platform >>>>>>>>Module System (JPMS), your application running on the Java runtime can >>>>>>>>remain modularized by OSGi. OSGi is not going to stop working on Java 9 >>>>>>>>:-) In other words, -classpath applications will not stop working on >>>>>>>>Java 9. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Now, there may be some blips and bugs in code that will need to be >>>>>>>>addressed for Java 9, that can happen with each new major Java release. >>>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>BJ Hargrave >>>>>>>>Senior Technical Staff Member, IBM // office: +1 386 848 1781 >>>>>>>>OSGi Fellow and CTO of the OSGi Alliance // mobile: +1 386 848 3788 >>>>>>>>hargr...@us.ibm.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>----- Original message ----- >>>>>>>>>From: Alex Sviridov < ooo_satu...@mail.ru > >>>>>>>>>Sent by: osgi-dev-boun...@mail.osgi.org >>>>>>>>>To: osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org >>>>>>>>>Cc: >>>>>>>>>Subject: [osgi-dev] OSGi and Java 9 >>>>>>>>>Date: Thu, Sep 7, 2017 12:22 PM >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Hello, everyone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Java 9 is about to be released. The main problem is Java 9 modular >>>>>>>>>system because it seems >>>>>>>>>to be strange to support two modular systems in one product - I mean >>>>>>>>>Java 9 modular system >>>>>>>>>and OSGi. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>What should OSGI users do now with current their products on OSGI? Not >>>>>>>>>to use Java 9 and >>>>>>>>>all future Java versions? Or there are other solutions how to work >>>>>>>>>with OSGI on Java 9? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I have found some articles in internet but I would like to hear answer >>>>>>>>>from OSGi >>>>>>>>>developers and OSGi experts. I would be thankful for any information. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Best regards, Alex >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>OSGi Developer Mail List >>>>>>>>>osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org >>>>>>>>>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mail.osgi.org_mailman_listinfo_osgi-2Ddev&d=DwICAg&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=p-HkGsKTJWWSiO-pz0kKXl8ALzmlqvUGeFfgHUZX8ms&m=xoyDnjWrU3zp8TRG6OOWJMt_kH0AvIDxQhMC12LNc8w&s=xOKa7s31l9Lf_pHbmjDcB8-8PfdqK-Ua34oJY8fo0DA&e= >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>Alex Sviridov >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>OSGi Developer Mail List >>>>>>>osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org >>>>>>>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mail.osgi.org_mailman_listinfo_osgi-2Ddev&d=DwICAg&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=p-HkGsKTJWWSiO-pz0kKXl8ALzmlqvUGeFfgHUZX8ms&m=Qx0S7sLQPhkNPJQ3kzt9FAx1EuhZA2ExnFKDJIJ4EbI&s=NRmVxnQ2M8-6zPxS7oXGeD3lRUD8PVlU2_lZ_S16Els&e= >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-- >>>>>Alex Sviridov >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>OSGi Developer Mail List >>>>>osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org >>>>>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mail.osgi.org_mailman_listinfo_osgi-2Ddev&d=DwICAg&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=p-HkGsKTJWWSiO-pz0kKXl8ALzmlqvUGeFfgHUZX8ms&m=389EU840o6121819OqxhALsWNubvLI1g_es7IiG4G5k&s=R3lTgAJpQRwMhJYbRIZwzKQvM3fpiCxn1RU7RtxjJug&e= >>>>> >>>> >>> >>>-- >>>Alex Sviridov >>>_______________________________________________ >>>OSGi Developer Mail List >>>osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org >>>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mail.osgi.org_mailman_listinfo_osgi-2Ddev&d=DwICAg&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=p-HkGsKTJWWSiO-pz0kKXl8ALzmlqvUGeFfgHUZX8ms&m=QSo9jUq2Febn5EnIr1rEVNa0ldeda-ffscXJRnEKIZk&s=4YB9Mn0-BtjkS1j9fbzK-4pn5baLbRWl7TYI_H36Kn8&e= >>> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>OSGi Developer Mail List >>osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org >>https://mail.osgi.org/mailman/listinfo/osgi-dev > -- Alex Sviridov
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