Um, it's kind of a natural law of the universe. It's why we are. Sent from John's iPhone
On Sep 19, 2011, at 8:52 AM, ANNE BENNETT <[email protected]> wrote: > Anyone care to take on the dimension of the desirability of new orders...? > regimes that emerge in open spaces, then contain/exclude/set up perverse > dynamics with other systems and contexts... are a function of the desires of > the actors - their readiness to 'improve/progress/be benign/hold on to good > intentions and espoused values/be moral and ethical etc...' all up for grabs > - yours, avid systems thinker > > A > > > From: John Watkins <[email protected]> > To: World wide Open Space Technology email list > <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, 19 September, 2011 16:17:05 > Subject: Re: [OSList] Designing an OS way > > Florian, > > HOWEVER... (and this may be how OST works... Harrison?) Prigogine and > Stengers also say that... "in open systems, in far from equilibrium states, > new orders emerge spontaneously." > > John > > On Sep 19, 2011, at 1:20 AM, fischer florian wrote: > >> John, that´s wonderful. Finally a clear definition. That works. >> Thank you a lot. >> Florian >> >> Florian Fischer >> [email protected] >> www.begleitung-im-wandel.com >> Münchener Straße 6 >> 10779 Berlin >> Fon (030) 2116752 >> >> >> >> Am 19.09.2011 um 06:25 schrieb John Watkins: >> >>> Artur, >>> >>> The term "open systems" comes from thermodynamics, especially from >>> Prigogine and Stengers, who also refer to them as "dissipative" systems. >>> It does not mean open to change; it means open in the sense of importing >>> "energy" from outside itself and excreting "energy" back into the >>> surrounding system. Such systems are most often self-organizing and >>> self-recreating (autopoiesis). They "sort" energy into that which will >>> help them recreate themselves and that which will not, and they dissipate >>> the rest, creating, paradoxically, internally order and externally more >>> entropy. Bureaucracies are actually great examples of open systems in this >>> regard. >>> >>> John >>> >>> On Sep 18, 2011, at 7:47 AM, Artur Silva wrote: >>> >>>> I continue to have a disagreement with you on this point, Harrison. >>>> >>>> I agree that "all systems are self organizing -- it is the preexisting >>>> condition here on planet earth" >>>> >>>> But I do not conclude that they are all open ! >>>> >>>> Let's think of physical phenomena first - it is self organization that >>>> creates diamonds (see, for instance >>>> http://www.allaboutgemstones.com/diamond_chemistry_formation.html). >>>> But after they are created, they are not open anymore - they are quit >>>> closed, especially if we compare them with other forms of carbon (like >>>> graphite - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon), not to talk when >>>> carbon is combined with oxygen, to form a gas, like in CO2. >>>> >>>> The same is true, IMHO, about organizations. Some are more open, but many >>>> are really closed, like Government burocraties or large companies. And >>>> some are more closed than others (let's take as an example IBM or >>>> Microsoft when compared with Google or Dell). >>>> >>>> This has other consequences, namely in what concerns the organizations' >>>> capacity to learn and adapt to the changing environment. >>>> >>>> I don't believe that we can continue to say that we (or the sponsor) >>>> "opens the space", if it was always already open ! >>>> >>>> Indeed, what we do in OST is, IMO, to create a pattern that has been >>>> previously designed - what, many moons ago, I have called the "foundations >>>> of OST" are indeed a pattern - that is different from the patterns of the >>>> World Cafe and, even more different, from the pattern of "Future Search". >>>> >>>> I thing that your remarks that we can't "design for self organization" >>>> applies to the "conventional engineering way of thinking about design": >>>> first we design and then we implement and control. >>>> >>>> But if we think about Chris Alexander's "Patterns" to create a "Timeless >>>> Way of Building", from regions, to cities, to neighborhoods, to buildings >>>> (see for instance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Alexander) we >>>> may create an analogue for organizations and try to imagine what are the >>>> patterns that allow for an organization or community to become more "open" >>>> and then more able to learn. >>>> >>>> This is, I believe, what many of us are doing in many different domains >>>> and situations. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Artur >>>> >>>> From: Harrison Owen <[email protected]> >>>> To: [email protected]; 'World wide Open Space Technology email >>>> list' <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 1:44 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [OSList] Designing an OS way >>>> >>>> Doug -- You may be working too hard. If you start with the idea (I would >>>> say >>>> fact) that the folks are already "in" open space, they are just not doing >>>> it >>>> as well or intentionally as they might. After all, all systems are self >>>> organizing -- it is the preexisting condition here on planet earth :-) >>>> Also, >>>> you have a group of consenting adults (the so called "students.") who >>>> probably have some idea of how they might like to spend time together in a >>>> useful and supportive fashion. If it were me, I would convene a 1 day Open >>>> Space for anybody who cared (presumably students and faculty) with the >>>> theme, "Issues and opportunities for supporting each other as we build our >>>> businesses." It might turn out, for example, that they would rather have a >>>> weekend together once a quarter. Or something totally different. >>>> >>>> At the very least you would avoid the awful oxymoron of "organizing a self >>>> organizing system." As for "The Principles, etc" no need to organize a >>>> thing. You would already "be there." And best of all you would be treating >>>> the "students" like adult human beings which I would consider to be a real >>>> plus. >>>> >>>> Harrison >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Harrison Owen >>>> 7808 River Falls Dr. >>>> Potomac, MD 20854 >>>> USA >>>> >>>> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer) >>>> Camden, Maine 20854 >>>> >>>> Phone 301-365-2093 >>>> (summer) 207-763-3261 >>>> >>>> www.openspaceworld.com >>>> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website) >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST >>>> Go to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of douglas >>>> germann >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 8:19 PM >>>> To: oslist >>>> Subject: [OSList] Designing an OS way >>>> >>>> Friends-- >>>> >>>> An opportunity has been dropped in my lap, and I need your help to >>>> noodle it through, please: >>>> >>>> A local college created a program for beginning entrepreneurs. They now >>>> have a dozen graduates of this continuing education program, and they >>>> are doing follow-on sessions: once a month, from 9 to 10 am, local >>>> experts present and consult with them. For those who pay the fee for >>>> this continuing portion, this session is mandatory. >>>> >>>> Now they want to do something at these monthly meetings which will >>>> encourage them to consult and conspire with one another on the >>>> challenges they are facing as they start their businesses. This is >>>> voluntary. >>>> >>>> The sessions would run from 10:30 am to 1:00 pm. Many people may have to >>>> get back to work by 1:00 so may leave early. >>>> >>>> They had a 3-hour OS session half way through their program before they >>>> graduated, so most of them have had some experience with OS. >>>> >>>> My sense of what they need is to be sounding boards for each other, to >>>> engage one another in deep and meaningful conversation, to have some >>>> bonding or cohesiveness time. >>>> >>>> I would like to design some way that uses OS principles that becomes >>>> their way of being together. They would like me to help some of them >>>> learn how to do OST, and that might be part of it. >>>> >>>> How would you design an OS way of life for these women for their once a >>>> month meeting? >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> :- Doug. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> OSList mailing list >>>> To post send emails to [email protected] >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >>>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> OSList mailing list >>>> To post send emails to [email protected] >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >>>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> OSList mailing list >>>> To post send emails to [email protected] >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >>>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OSList mailing list >>> To post send emails to [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list >> To post send emails to [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
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