Wow Michael and Christine, Thank you for this discussion and your words.
The self-organizing that I felt drawn to and struggled so much to better understand suddenly became clearer. Describing "OST as pretty helpful in that effort" also described the essence of it for me.... as a simple invitation, not forced or imposed or dogmatic, said simply with such elegance and grace. Thank you again. Suzanne On Mar 6, 2014 6:12 AM, "Michael M Pannwitz" <mmpannw...@gmail.com> wrote: > Dear Christine, > you are on the safe side by focusing on expanding time and space for the > forces of selforganisation to unfold and OST is pretty helpful in that > effort. > If you do that, a number of more or less puzzling things will regularly > happen, such as high performance or laughter or heated debate or peaceful > dialog between people that were at each others throats not long ago, etc. > You "intended" none of that, that is you exerted no control, all you did > is step back and make make more space for selforganisation to do its thing. > In other words, Open Space does not create conditions for high performance > but for the unfolding of selforganisation. And that in turn does various > more or less amazing things that nobody ever imagined to happen. > In my own practice, I noticed that much of what I think people are afraid > of or are anxious about, are things that I am afraid of or anxious about. > Now this is a question for me as facilitator processing this stuff in a way > that it does not divert me from focusing on holding time and space. This is > not healthy environment for selforganisation to unfold. > Yes, it might be true, that people prefer to understand how things work. > Indeed, I prefer when I understand things. Looking at the "rules" for a > peacemaker, another word for facilitator, goes like this "Never delude > yourself in thinking you can understand complex stuff" (or something like > that). Again, that too diverts your attention (or in more classical terms, > what I am paid for). > > What you report about the management seminar made me shout and lough, > of course, you did supply the explenation for this nonsense: not enough > time, no feedback, diffentiation of the entire group into 5 subgroups, etc. > All conditions under which selforganisation is cramped... > > Have a great day > mmp > > On 05.03.2014 21:47, christine koehler wrote: > >> Harrison, >> Maybe I am beginning to get it. Maybe not. >> You say self-organization is already there, no matter what we do or dont >> do. ok. >> Maybe the question is not about self-organisation but about high >> performance : Hsieh, Gore, Semler's visions only say something about how >> they see high performance flow from/in/thru the system. Might be an >> attempt to control it, by naming it Holacracy, or even self >> organization ? However, from what they say, their way of controling it >> might end up with higher levels of performance than "command and >> control"systems. Using Open Space creates conditions for high >> performance. But then, should we just stop doing deciding and trying >> things because no matter what we do the system will self-organize ? >> Are we "working too hard" when we try to work differently ?Do you >> believe that Zappos would have end up anyway with same performance >> withoug the hard work of implementing Holacracy ? Anyway, we will never >> know... >> >> My feeling is also that people tend to prefer when they understand how >> things work (otherwise they get anxious), and in this regard >> self-organization may make things uneasy. Who can tell how it works ? >> If you take decision making for instance, and if I take Wosonos as an >> example, sometimes the decision making process for the location on the >> next one is so obvious to everybody who go through it that everything >> seems easy and clear. But sometimes , and for reasons that are quite >> unclear to me, it seems that the some people are not happy and the >> decision maling process is questioned. Of course this is true with any >> decision making process, maybe it's just that some processes are easier >> to describe. Our brain needs to be able to simplify complex processes in >> order to be comfortable with it. >> >> Right now I am experiencing something interesting : for a management >> seminar, a few groups emerged from what I could call a very simplistic >> "law of 2 feet" decision making process. ie there was offered >> opportunity for 5 groups to emerge, and so it went. (why 5 ? well, that >> was completely arbitrary. probably because timing was short and that >> there were only very short time to get feedbacks fro the groupn as >> feedback was required) . After the seminar where people are asked to >> work further on those topics. Management decided not to let leaders of >> those groups use the law of 2 feets but members could. (I agree this is >> a strange rule). What is happening is that they are questioning the >> decision making process : how do we know those topics are the most >> important ones ? is this group the best to work on such particular topic >> ? How can I feel legitimate in being the leader of this group as it is >> not my dayjob ? etc.. Would you say that they are working too hard ? >> That the system will take care of itself and anyway self-organize, no >> matter what we do ? >> >> >> Christine >> >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 11:27 PM, Harrison Owen <hho...@verizon.net >> <mailto:hho...@verizon.net>> wrote: >> >> Christine ... "I find very interesting this tension between personal >> vision (think about Gore for instance or Semler and Semco) and >> self-organization. looks very complex and human to me ;)____ >> >> but still wondering how self-organization fits within this kind of >> frame." ____ >> >> __ __ >> >> It is really easy. Self Organization is already there, but the poor >> folks at Zappo think they did it! Surprise - what they really did >> was complicate something that could have happened very easily by >> itself. Ah! But we humans have to feel we are in control. Even when >> we say we aren't and don't care to be. The Trojan Horse rides again. >> Zappo'd as it were.____ >> >> __ __ >> >> ho____ >> >> __ __ >> >> >> >> ____ >> >> __ __ >> >> __ __ >> >> Harrison Owen____ >> >> 7808 River Falls Dr.____ >> >> Potomac, MD 20854____ >> >> USA____ >> >> __ __ >> >> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)____ >> >> Camden, Maine 04843____ >> >> __ __ >> >> Phone 301-365-2093____ >> >> (summer) 207-763-3261____ >> >> __ __ >> >> www.openspaceworld.com <http://www.openspaceworld.com%20> ____ >> >> www.ho-image.com <http://www.ho-image.com%20> (Personal Website)____ >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of >> OSLIST Go >> to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist- >> openspacetech.org____ >> >> __ __ >> >> *From:*oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org >> <mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org> >> [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org >> <mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org>] *On Behalf Of >> *christine koehler >> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 04, 2014 2:35 PM >> >> >> *To:* World wide Open Space Technology email list >> *Subject:* Re: [OSList] Open Space and Holacracy____ >> >> __ __ >> >> This reminds me of a very short conversation I had with a >> participant of the Practice of Peace seminar last January. He had >> left Zappos not so long ago. We exchanged a few words about the >> ambiguity of Tony Hsieh mandating Zappos to become holacratic, >> because it was his own personal vision.____ >> >> I find very interesting this tension between personal vision (think >> about Gore for instance or Semler and Semco) and self-organization. >> ____ >> >> looks very complex and human to me ;)____ >> >> but stlll wondering how self-organization fits within this kind of >> frame. >> >> ____ >> >> Christine ____ >> >> __ __ >> >> __ __ >> >> __ __ >> >> On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 8:03 PM, Harrison Owen <hho...@verizon.net >> <mailto:hho...@verizon.net>> wrote:____ >> >> Christine, Zappo Holarchs "rolled out" according to the following... >> Sounds like sort of a mandate to me. ho____ >> >> ____ >> >> http://qz.com/161210/zappos-is-going-holacratic-no-job- >> titles-no-managers-no-hierarchy >> ____ >> >> ____ >> >> Harrison Owen____ >> >> 7808 River Falls Dr.____ >> >> Potomac, MD 20854____ >> >> USA____ >> >> ____ >> >> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)____ >> >> Camden, Maine 04843____ >> >> ____ >> >> Phone 301-365-2093____ >> >> (summer) 207-763-3261____ >> >> ____ >> >> www.openspaceworld.com <http://www.openspaceworld.com%20> ____ >> >> www.ho-image.com <http://www.ho-image.com%20> (Personal Website)____ >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of >> OSLIST Go >> to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist- >> openspacetech.org____ >> >> ____ >> >> *From:*oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org >> <mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org> >> [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org >> <mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org>] *On Behalf Of >> *Christine Whitney Sanchez >> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 04, 2014 12:46 PM____ >> >> >> *To:* World wide Open Space Technology email list >> *Subject:* Re: [OSList] Open Space and Holacracy____ >> >> ____ >> >> Great post, Daniel. Our company worked with Tony Hseigh's Downtown >> Las Vegas Project last year and found the whole thing to be very >> self-organizing. ____ >> >> ____ >> >> I'm surprised that Zappos is imposing any kind of mandate - where >> did you discover this?____ >> >> ____ >> >> Namasté, >> >> Christine >> >> Christine Whitney Sanchez, Partner >> Innovation Partners International >> Phoenix, AZ, USA +1.480.759.0262 <tel:%2B1.480.759.0262> >> www.innovationpartners.com <http://www.innovationpartners.com>____ >> >> ____ >> >> ____ >> >> On Mar 4, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Dan Mezick <d...@newtechusa.net >> <mailto:d...@newtechusa.net>> wrote:____ >> >> __ __ >> >> An invitation arouses curiousity, but a mandate dries up ____ >> >> the bones... Ancient Proverb____ >> >> ____ >> >> The Mandate of Holacracy at Zappos:____ >> >> ____ >> >> http://newtechusa.net/agile/the-mandate-of-holacracy-at-zappos/ >> >> Sent from my iPhone____ >> >> >> On Mar 4, 2014, at 11:36 AM, "Harrison Owen" <hho...@verizon.net >> <mailto:hho...@verizon.net>> wrote:____ >> >> Wikipedia (as usual) has everything you wanted to know... go to -- >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holacracy >> >> I can certainly imagine Open Space playing a role in >> Holacracies, and in >> fact the "governance" in a Open Space could certainly be >> described as >> "Holacratic" -- which is to say "ruling power" is totally >> distributed >> amongst the participants. But there is a real difference. >> Holacracy in Open >> Space is totally an emergent phenomenon. Nobody designed it, >> nobody >> implements it -- it just shows up all by itself. Holacracy in >> places like >> Zappos is a designed phenomenon. Doubtless it works pretty well, >> but it does >> seem to me that they may be working a little too hard, creating >> something >> that can and does happen all by itself. I think. >> >> Harrison >> >> Harrison Owen >> 7808 River Falls Dr. >> Potomac, MD 20854 >> USA >> >> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer) >> Camden, Maine 04843 >> >> Phone 301-365-2093 >> (summer) 207-763-3261 >> >> www.openspaceworld.com <http://www.openspaceworld.com/> >> www.ho-image.com <http://www.ho-image.com/> (Personal Website) >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the >> archives of OSLIST >> Go >> to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist- >> openspacetech.org >> <http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist- >> openspacetech.org> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org >> <mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org> >> [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of >> Kári Gunnarsson >> Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2014 11:20 AM >> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list >> Subject: Re: [OSList] Open Space and Holacracy >> >> I heard that Holacracy is somehow based upon the principles of >> Open Space >> and uses Open space for its implementation. >> >> On 4 March 2014 08:53, Rob van der Eyden >> <robvanderey...@veranderarchitect.nl >> <mailto:robvanderey...@veranderarchitect.nl>> wrote:____ >> >> Hello Kári,____ >> >> ____ >> >> Interesting question. How do you see the link between Open >> space and ____ >> >> Holacracy?____ >> >> ____ >> >> Kind regards, Rob van der Eyden____ >> >> ____ >> >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----____ >> >> Van: oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org >> <mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org>____ >> >> [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] Namens Kári >> Gunnarsson____ >> >> Verzonden: maandag 3 maart 2014 21:52____ >> >> Aan: Open Space Forum____ >> >> Onderwerp: [OSList] Open Space and Holacracy____ >> >> ____ >> >> There have been much talk about the relationship of the >> organizational ____ >> >> chart and how Open Space operates. Recent compareson to me >> has been to ____ >> >> link the new self-organizing authority and decision-making >> system ____ >> >> called Holacracy____ >> >> see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holacracy____ >> >> ____ >> >> I wonder if there are stories on the use of Open space to >> transform ____ >> >> more traditional system to one of Open Space based >> Holacracy? I would ____ >> >> be happy to learn some of your experiences in this regard.____ >> >> ____ >> >> --____ >> >> Kári Gunnarsson____ >> >> kari.gunnars...@simnet.is <mailto:kari.gunnars...@simnet.is >> >____ >> >> gsm: +354 8645189 <tel:%2B354%208645189>____ >> >> ____ >> >> ___________________________________________________ >> >> OSList mailing list____ >> >> To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org >> <mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org> To unsubscribe ____ >> >> send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org >> <mailto:oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org>____ >> >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:____ >> >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist- >> openspacetech.org____ >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Kári Gunnarsson >> kari.gunnars...@simnet.is <mailto:kari.gunnars...@simnet.is> >> gsm: +354 8645189 <tel:%2B354%208645189> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list >> To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org >> <mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org> To unsubscribe send an >> email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org >> <mailto:oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org> >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist- >> openspacetech.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list >> To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org >> <mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org> >> To unsubscribe send an email to >> oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org >> <mailto:oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org> >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist- >> openspacetech.org____ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list >> To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org >> <mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org> >> To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org >> <mailto:oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org> >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist- >> openspacetech.org____ >> >> ____ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list >> To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org >> <mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org> >> To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org >> <mailto:oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org> >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist- >> openspacetech.org____ >> >> >> >> >> -- ____ >> >> Christine Koehler, créatrice d'espace de Dialogue et de Coopération >> Executive Coach, Médiateur >> www.christine-koehler.fr <http://www.christine-koehler.fr/> >> Tel : 06 13 28 71 38 <tel:06%2013%2028%2071%2038> >> Fax : 09 72 32 36 65 >> <tel:09%C2%A0%2072%C2%A0%2032%2036%C2%A0%2065>____ >> >> __ __ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list >> To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org >> <mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org> >> To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org >> <mailto:oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org> >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Christine Koehler, créatrice d'espace de Dialogue et de Coopération >> Executive Coach, Médiateur >> www.christine-koehler.fr <http://www.christine-koehler.fr/> >> Tel : 06 13 28 71 38 >> Fax : 09 72 32 36 65 >> <http://christine-koehler.fr/2013/formation-de-levenement- >> au-processus-avril-2013/> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list >> To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >> >> > -- > Michael M Pannwitz > Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin, Germany > ++49 - 30-772 8000 > > > > Check out the Open Space World Map presently showing 428 resident Open > Space Workers in 71 countries working in a total of 143 countries > worldwide: www.openspaceworldmap.org > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org > To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >
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