Thanks for your reply Harrison. I agree with you. (I don't always say that but here it is in print :-). Within the circle (and Sheila, I agree that you are into something important with your look at the circle and sacred geometry and hope you continue :-) we witness Spirit showing up and we witness self organizing.
Have I been obtuse or is this what you were saying all along? Actually, as I agree that within the circle we have conditions that enable the chance to self organize. Maybe the concept I am having difficulty with is the joining of the words self organize with the word "system". When that word isn't there, it is easier for me to agree with. Warmest regards and thanks to all who participated in what I think has been a wonderful and rich conversation that I think will continue. I know I also want to post this topic at OSONOS and hope many of you will be there. I'm leaving this discussion for a while not because I'm not interested in its continuation and will read the postings but I wish to attend to a son who is having surgery and devote my attention to him. Birgitt Birgitt Bolton of Dalar Associates www.openspacetechnology.com 55 Ravina Cres., Ancaster, Ontario, Canada L9G 2E8 phone: 905-648-5775 fax: 905-648-2262 -----Original Message----- From: OSLIST [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Harrison Owen Sent: Monday, August 23, 1999 7:27 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: self organizing systems Birgitt wrote: >It is human beings, especially human beings in our formal organizations that >I am not so sure about. And yes, I am separating us from the rest of nature >as I talk about us here.Mostly because that which differentiates us so much >from the rest of nature is that we have "will" and the freedom to make >choices from amongst so many. And we have a lot of emotions. And we have >tyrants and dictators and places where we aren't free to self organize. **************************************************************************** ****************** There is no question in my mind that as humans we are different from rocks in that we have knowledge (maybe), some degree of freedom, and feelings about all of the above. But we are also subject to many of the same operative principles of nature. So if you drop me and a rock, both will fall. There is a difference in that I will know that I am falling, and probably not like it too much. It is also possible that I can drop myself (jump over a cliff) and thereby demonstrate my free will (free fall?) So there are differences, and also similarities. Like rocks (molecules etc) we will self organize given certain simple pre-conditions. Unlike rocks (presumably) we can choose to create/initiate these conditions and thus jump over the cliff or into Open Space. We will also have certain feelings about what transpires and remember those feelings. Presumably rocks don't have all that, although there are certainly some people on the planet who would disagree. **************************************************************************** ****************** >Doing an Open Space meeting is an "intervention" into the natural way of >things. So, if the natural way of things is self organizing, why do we even >do Open Space? Harrison has pointed out that we do it to create the >conditions for self organization to be possible. So...if that is so, maybe >we are not about naturally being a self organizing system???? I have seen >self management operate in Open Space but I would not call this a self >organizing system. **************************************************************************** ******************* For me, doing an Open Space is certainly an intervention -- but it is an intervention in exactly the same way that jumping over a cliff is an intervention. I decide to take a break from the normal day's activities and hurl myself into the atmosphere. But once I have made that decision, what happens next follows pretty much what Uncle Newton predicts. Ordinarily I go down, and not up. The same holds true for rocks. So with Open Space -- every time , invite a group of people to sit in a circle... and guess what Spirit shows up, magic breaks out, work gets done, and no body or group of bodies prescribed the organizational form in which all that takes place. Maybe I am being obtuse, but I would have to say the group did it all by itself. Or self-organized. Of course, we all know of situations where Open Space didn't seem to work, but in every situation I am aware of -- the problem wasn't Open Space -- the problem was what we euphemistically call, "Modified Open Space" -- which almost inevitably means that somebody couldn't quite let go, on the grounds that things could get out of control. Harrison Harrison Owen 7808 River Falls Drive Potomac, MD 20854 USA Summer address: 189 Beaucaire Ave. RR Box 4248 Camden, ME 04843 Website www.tmn.com/~owen Phone 301-469-9269 Fax 301-983-9314 Maine Phone 207-763-3261
