hi chris, hi bernd, bernd, you're questions reminded me of a conversation i had with chris about katie byrons work; i don't have the 'truth' questions she poses but they would add something to this thread...chris?
penny ----- Original Message ----- From: toke <t...@interchange.dk> To: <osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu> Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 4:02 AM Subject: Re: Givens (was: Already-thereness, Empowerment and Such) Thanks you Chris very enligthening conversation..... It inspires me to more often ask some serious questions when meeting Mr Given... - are you real ? - do you, Mister Given have natural meaning or are you based in fear and control? - if I challenced you would you disappear or become my creative friend ? more "give ups" would become shadows and more real givens could surface into clarity.... thanks for making this practise more conscious ..... - toke søndag 2. mar 2003 kl. 12:32 skrev Chris Corrigan: > Yes Bernd, my point was that the Wright brothers, having fully > understood the givens, figured out how to fly. I recently read that > only weeks before they did this, the New York Times published an > editorial saying that humans would never fly. Seems to me to be a > prime > example of what I'm talking about. > > This case is in fact an eloquent example of what I mean now when I say > that the real "givens" are empowering and the false ones are > disempowering. Dealing with real givens, we can work around them, > bring > to bear all the creativity and ingenuity of the human spirit alone or > in > groups to figure out solutions that include and transcend the givens. > But I believe that the hardest givens to overcome are the ones that > aren't even real: the stories we tell ourselves about why we can't do > things. In that case, empowerment finally comes when one sees that the > stories are simply stories, and not reality at all. > > To put it on a bumper sticker, it's the difference between "givens" and > "give-ins" > > Eh? > > Chris > > > --- > CHRIS CORRIGAN > Consultation - Facilitation > Open Space Technology > > Bowen Island, BC, Canada > http://www.chriscorrigan.com > ch...@chriscorrigan.com > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of WB- >> TrainingConsultingDevelopment >> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 6:44 AM >> To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu >> Subject: Re: Givens (was: Already-thereness, Empowerment and Such) >> >> Has nothing to do with open space, >> just a note for science-metaphor using freeks: >> ------------ >> >> Chris, >> >> I like your argument >> but your example is only good in the sense of a metapher. >> >> f you look at the real history of technology, the Wright- brothers' > (and >> other genial technical engeneer's) approach was not the one you >> described. Yet they flew. >> The point is, that you forgot that there was another fact-or in the > game >> you unduely reduced complexity >> Air: they did not invent ballistic rockets (for which your argument > would >> be right) >> But they used aerodynamics against gravity in their art (greek: > téknè) of >> flying >> >> >> >> On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 14:14:18 -0800, Chris Corrigan wrote: >> Without getting esoteric, one can WANT to fly, but if one advances >> efforts to do so without admitting that gravity is a force to be >> reckoned with, one won't get very far. However, if one accepts that >> gravity is real and can be absolutely known and that it is a true >> given, then one can accommodate gravity in one's quest to fly. "Okay >> then" one would think, "I need to make something that accelerates me >> away from the earth with more force than gravity can exert on me." >> This is profoundly more empowering thought than "Screw it, gravity is >> too strong. I'll never fly." It is more empowering because it >> actually leads one to flight. >> >> * >> * >> ========================================================== >> osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu >> ------------------------------ >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, >> view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu, >> Visit: >> >> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > * > * > ========================================================== > osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu > ------------------------------ > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu, > Visit: > > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu, Visit: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu, Visit: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
