Actually Penny we did Byron Katie's stuff a lot earlier in the thread. That's sort of what prompted it in our conversation. I definitely find The Work to be amazing at poking the holes in the "give-ins." The essence of the work is the four basic questions:
1. Is it true? 2. Can you absolutely know that it's true? 3. How do you feel when you think that thought? 4. What kind of person would you be without that thought? Or something along those lines. Again, it is intricate stuff, but you can find out more about it at http://www.thework.org. --- CHRIS CORRIGAN Consultation - Facilitation Open Space Technology Bowen Island, BC, Canada http://www.chriscorrigan.com ch...@chriscorrigan.com > -----Original Message----- > From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of Penny > Scott > Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 9:21 AM > To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu > Subject: Re: Givens (was: Already-thereness, Empowerment and Such) > > hi chris, hi bernd, > > bernd, you're questions reminded me of a conversation i had with chris > about > katie byrons work; i don't have the 'truth' questions she poses but they > would add something to this thread...chris? > > penny > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: toke <t...@interchange.dk> > To: <osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu> > Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 4:02 AM > Subject: Re: Givens (was: Already-thereness, Empowerment and Such) > > > Thanks you Chris > > very enligthening conversation..... > > It inspires me to more often ask some serious questions when meeting Mr > Given... > > - are you real ? > - do you, Mister Given have natural meaning or are you based in fear > and control? > - if I challenced you would you disappear or become my creative friend ? > > more "give ups" would become shadows and more real givens could surface > into clarity.... > > thanks for making this practise more conscious ..... > > - toke > > > > søndag 2. mar 2003 kl. 12:32 skrev Chris Corrigan: > > > Yes Bernd, my point was that the Wright brothers, having fully > > understood the givens, figured out how to fly. I recently read that > > only weeks before they did this, the New York Times published an > > editorial saying that humans would never fly. Seems to me to be a > > prime > > example of what I'm talking about. > > > > This case is in fact an eloquent example of what I mean now when I say > > that the real "givens" are empowering and the false ones are > > disempowering. Dealing with real givens, we can work around them, > > bring > > to bear all the creativity and ingenuity of the human spirit alone or > > in > > groups to figure out solutions that include and transcend the givens. > > But I believe that the hardest givens to overcome are the ones that > > aren't even real: the stories we tell ourselves about why we can't do > > things. In that case, empowerment finally comes when one sees that the > > stories are simply stories, and not reality at all. > > > > To put it on a bumper sticker, it's the difference between "givens" and > > "give-ins" > > > > Eh? > > > > Chris > > > > > > --- > > CHRIS CORRIGAN > > Consultation - Facilitation > > Open Space Technology > > > > Bowen Island, BC, Canada > > http://www.chriscorrigan.com > > ch...@chriscorrigan.com > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of WB- > >> TrainingConsultingDevelopment > >> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 6:44 AM > >> To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu > >> Subject: Re: Givens (was: Already-thereness, Empowerment and Such) > >> > >> Has nothing to do with open space, > >> just a note for science-metaphor using freeks: > >> ------------ > >> > >> Chris, > >> > >> I like your argument > >> but your example is only good in the sense of a metapher. > >> > >> f you look at the real history of technology, the Wright- brothers' > > (and > >> other genial technical engeneer's) approach was not the one you > >> described. Yet they flew. > >> The point is, that you forgot that there was another fact-or in the > > game > >> you unduely reduced complexity > >> Air: they did not invent ballistic rockets (for which your argument > > would > >> be right) > >> But they used aerodynamics against gravity in their art (greek: > > téknè) of > >> flying > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 14:14:18 -0800, Chris Corrigan wrote: > >> Without getting esoteric, one can WANT to fly, but if one advances > >> efforts to do so without admitting that gravity is a force to be > >> reckoned with, one won't get very far. However, if one accepts that > >> gravity is real and can be absolutely known and that it is a true > >> given, then one can accommodate gravity in one's quest to fly. "Okay > >> then" one would think, "I need to make something that accelerates me > >> away from the earth with more force than gravity can exert on me." > >> This is profoundly more empowering thought than "Screw it, gravity is > >> too strong. I'll never fly." It is more empowering because it > >> actually leads one to flight. > >> > >> * > >> * > >> ========================================================== > >> osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu > >> ------------------------------ > >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > >> view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu, > >> Visit: > >> > >> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > > > * > > * > > ========================================================== > > osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu > > ------------------------------ > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > > view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu, > > Visit: > > > > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > > > * > * > ========================================================== > osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu > ------------------------------ > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu, > Visit: > > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > * > * > ========================================================== > osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu > ------------------------------ > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu, > Visit: > > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu, Visit: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
