"It is important to strike a balance between what the client wants and what will work to get them where they hope to go."
Wait, you mean they're different? (just joking) -Steve On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 8:49 AM, Lucy Garrick - NorthShore Group < lgarr...@northshoregroup.net> wrote: > Hi Suzanne, > I understand how you feel. Many of your questions are as much about > consulting (a practice) as they are about OS (an intervention methodology). > When I first began consulting on my own I had consulted with some companies > that used more of what consultant think of as the "expert" model of > consulting. Excuse me if this is old info, but are you familiar with Edgar > Schein's book, "Process Consultation Revisited"? Also Peter Block's > "Flawless Consulting" is another good resource on process consultation. It > is important to strike a balance between what the client wants and what will > work to get them where they hope to go. > > Best, Lucy Garrick > > > NorthShore Group > Organization Strategy, Planning and Leadership Consulting > Professional Coaching > http://www.northshoregroup.net<http://northshoregroup.net/blog/index.html> > Blog: Global Outlook from the > NorthShore<http://northshoregroup.net/blog/index.html> > Phone: +1*206-335-5635 > Time Zone: Seattle, WA USA Pacific Standard (PST) > > > > > > On Jul 1, 2009, at 3:55 AM, Suzanne Daigle wrote: > > (warning very long...) > > As I follow and reflect on the discussion about visual protocol and > offering visual results from an Open Space experience and then think about > how we connect benefits of self-organizing to a client’s desired outcome, so > many questions surface for me. > > How can we honor a client’s desired outcome which assumes predictability > and control when Open Space invites something quite different? With my > limited experience with Open Space (I’ve only done two as an unpaid > volunteer) and a long corporate career, my gut tells me that the Open Space > way of lighting up passion and responsibility in individuals and collectives > will lead to results that far exceed what a client could initially expect. > I know because all my life, I’ve seen how much gets accomplished when > people are passionate about what they do. Open Space is all about that. > Many clients want a clear-cut route to improved results, better service, > higher quality, etc. This we cannot promise. Rather, OS is a journey, a > new way of doing which means undoing what didn’t work, and seeing what we > don’t’ want to see to create what we can’t know. > > How can we effectively convey to a client the importance of gut feel and > intuition, inviting them to an experience that they must “feel” and not just > “think”? The dilemma is that you cannot know Open Space until you’ve done > Open Space and not just once. How can you describe what get’s ignited in > people when they get to choose (Law of Two Feet), feel Equal and live/work > according to principles (4 OS principles) – something that makes so much > sense but that is so different than what our current hierarchical world > dictates? > > Once people are activated in an Open Space way, I think it ignites a > longing that is in each of us and the difficulty is that you just don’t want > to go back to the old way. How then do we blend traditional and > self-organizing? > > I struggle with these questions and as I embark on this wild ride of OS, I > imagine myself building trust at the beginning of my relationship with > clients talking about the issues that they care about and that they know: > their business. Hopefully by connecting and being honest, I will > establish enough trust so that they will want to try this new way, knowing > deep inside them that the old ways aren’t working any more. It’s about > finding the courage of our voice and actions, doing this together in a > supportive way. > > Knowing that we cannot immediately and fully internalize all that OS > represents, I then struggle with how we can optimize and capture what Open > Space does inside you. What I did with incredible help from Michele > Young, who assisted me on the two Open Spaces that I facilitated, was create > a visual show that not only tried to capture in its authenticity what > happened there but also tried to convey the spirit of the invitation and > preparation and the OS concepts and themes of this new way of being so that > people through pictures can remember what it “felt” like to be part of this. > I questioned myself in doing so wondering if this went against the > principles of self-organizing, equality, and the self-effacing role of a > facilitator. Then I told myself: heck…I’m doing it anyway as a gift. > > IONS Conference Open Space in Tucson > * > http://www.authorstream.com/Presentation/daigle_Suzanne-208049-ions-away-presentation-open-space-spiritual-inspirational-ppt-powerpoint/ > * > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Harrison Owen <hho...@verizon.net> wrote: > >> Thanks Michael -- I think J >> >> >> Harrison >> >> >> Harrison Owen >> >> 189 Beaucaire Ave >> >> Camden, ME 04843 >> >> 207-763-3261 (Summer) >> >> 301-365-2093 (Winter) >> >> Website www.openspaceworld.com >> >> Personal Website www.ho-image.com >> >> OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options >> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of Michael >> M Pannwitz >> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 7:46 AM >> To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu >> Subject: Re: AW: How can we foster sustainable outcomes? >> >> >> Liebe Catherine, >> >> ich hab zu Deiner Frage schon mal in dieser Liste auf Englisch >> >> geschrieben, aber hier kommts nochmal auf deutsch (ich fänds super, >> >> wenns auch noch jemand, der es auf französisch und italienisch und >> >> Latein probiert, aufschreibt, damit es sich in der ganzen Schweiz >> >> verbreiten kann): >> >> >> Mich interessieren Nachhaltigkeit oder nachhaltige Ergebnisse in meiner >> >> Rolle als Begleiter überhaupt nicht. >> >> >> Wenn der Veranstalter allerdings sowas will, nehm ich ihm ja auch in >> >> keiner Weise krumm, dann sage ich ihm, was er tun kann, damit die >> >> Wahrscheinlichkeit von nachhaltiger Umsetzung von Verabredungen zu >> >> Vorhaben steigt und welcher Aufwand von Veranstaltern dazu mit ziemlich >> >> gutem Erfolg dafür betrieben worden ist. >> >> >> Gleich zu Anfang möchte ich Dir aber verraten, dass die Form der >> >> Dokumentation dabei eine eher untergeordnete Rolle spielt (hierzu hatte >> >> ich auch auf die Berichte von John Engle verwiesen aus Situationen, in >> >> denen es kein Papier, keine Stifte gibt und in denen viele der >> >> Teilnehmenden auch nicht lesen oder schreiben können). >> >> >> Also hier meine Hinweise an den Veranstalter: >> >> >> 1. Ein Vorbereitungstreffen mit einer Gruppe, die in etwa die erwartete >> >> Teilnehmerschaft abbildet, also das ganze System, wie es sich zu diesem >> >> Zeitpunkt für ihn darstellt, zusammenbringen. Sie / er gehört dazu. >> >> Optimal ist, wenn diese Gruppe authorisiert ist mit ihr / ihm gemeinsame >> >> alles zu entscheiden: Thema, Einzuladende, Einladung, Organisation, etc. >> >> Ich biete ihm die Begleitung des in der Regel 3,5stündigen Treffens an. >> >> 2. Eine Einladung, in der nicht nur zu der Veranstaltung eingeladen >> >> wird, sondern auch schon zu dem 8 bis 12 Wochen später stattfindendem >> >> "Nächsten Treffen", bei dem die Vorhaben, die in der Handlungsplanung am >> >> Ende der OST Veranstaltung verabredet wurden, angeschaut werden...wo >> >> sind wir jetzt?, gibts neue Vorhaben?, wie gehts weiter?...plus mögliche >> >> weitere "Nächste Treffen". >> >> 3. Ein Verfahren, in dem so gut wie es irgendwie möglich ist >> >> sichergestellt wird, dass all diejenigen auf jeweils spezifische Art und >> >> Weise vom Veranstalter und Mitgliedern der Vorbereitungsgruppe >> >> eingeladen werden, die dafür notwendig erscheinen, die Erwartungen unter >> >> der gewählten Überschrift auch tatsächlich einzulösen. >> >> 4. Eine dreitägige Veranstaltung, also 16 Stunden auf drei Tage verteilt >> >> (Nachmittag, ganzer Tag, Vor-oder Nachmittag), zweimal schlafen, mit >> >> einer Handlungsplanung am letzten Tag. >> >> 5. Eine Dokuwand mit allen aus den Anliegengruppen entstehenden >> >> Ergebnissen, die nochmal von allen gegen Ende des 2. Tages gemeinsame >> >> zur Kenntnis genommen wird mit der Möglichkeit, dann noch zu jedem >> >> Ergebnisblatt auf einem Ergänzungsblatt weitere Fragen, Hinweise, etc. >> >> festzuhalten.(Diese gesammelten Werke können entweder als Papierdoku in >> >> der Nacht vom 2. auf den 3. Tag hergestellt werden und den Teilnehmenden >> >> am dritten Tag morgens gegeben werden oder als pdf/eDoku nach der >> >> Veranstaltung auf einer www erscheinen, zu der die Teilnehmenden Zugang >> >> haben). >> >> 6. Eine Kontaktliste der Teilnehmenden mit von den TeilnehmerInnen >> >> überprüften Kontaktdaten für alle Teilnehmenden, die das wollen, am Ende >> >> der Veranstaltung an alle Teilnehmenden für die Kommunikation nach der >> >> Tagung verteilen (die Kontaktliste wurde im Laufe der Veranstaltung von >> >> den Teilnehmenden selber erstellt). >> >> 7. Kopien der Verabredungen, die in der Handlungsplanung zu den Vorhaben >> >> entstanden sind, an alle Teilnehmenden innert einer Woche nach der >> >> Veranstaltung verschicken samt Einladung zu dem bereits bekannten >> >> "Nächsten Treffen". >> >> 8. Deutliche Hinweise darauf, das alles von den Teilnehmenden so weit es >> >> irgend möglich ist, selbst getan wird (ihre Anliegengruppen selbständig >> >> organisieren,Dokublätter anfertigen,Kontaktliste erstellen...) >> >> >> Für Veranstalter, die Nachhaltigkeit wollen, ist das alles sehr einfach, >> >> einleuchtend, notwendig. >> >> Für Veranstalter, die das nicht (wirklich) wollen, ist das alles eine >> >> eher unüberwindbare Barriere. >> >> >> So, das ist das, was ich mache und ich möchte nicht, dass es als Rezept >> >> verstanden wird. Wenn jemand es so ausprobiert, würde es mich >> >> überraschen, wenn es nicht klappt.... >> >> >> Herzlich Grüße aus Berlin >> >> mmp >> >> >> Catherine Pfaehler wrote: >> >> > Dear Reinhard >> >> > >> >> > As you describe it in depth, it becomes more understandable and really >> >> > sounds wonderful. >> >> > >> >> > What about writing a book on methods and hints for visual protocols? I >> >> > especially like your idea of the participants doing the visual protocols >> >> > themselves. Some might even discover they have a talent they weren't >> aware >> >> > of! >> >> > >> >> > And my original question remains open - what do others do to foster >> >> > sustainable outcomes? >> >> > >> >> > Heartfully, C. >> >> > >> >> > Catherine Pfaehler Senn >> >> > lic.oec.HSG >> >> > Open Space Begleitung >> >> > St. Alban-Vorstadt 15 >> >> > CH - 4052 Basel >> >> > +41-(0)76 - 488 15 46 >> >> > c.pfaeh...@open-space-begleitung.ch >> >> > www.open-space-begleitung.ch >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >> >> > Von: Reinhard Kuchenmueller [mailto:m...@visuelle-protokolle.de] >> >> > Gesendet: Samstag, 27. Juni 2009 07:01 >> >> > An: c.pfaeh...@bluewin.ch; osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu >> >> > Betreff: AW: How can we foster sustainable outcomes? >> >> > >> >> > Dear Catherine, >> >> > >> >> > it seems t get a dialogue between you and me - and Harrison defending >> his >> >> > turf - while all the others are busy discussing Paris Stammtisch and >> some >> >> > problems of dogma and exegesis in the holy principles. >> >> > >> >> > My focus lies on the os meeting. My heart belongs to the paricipating >> >> > people, my head to the client behind everything. In a meeting of lets >> say >> >> > 200 participants everybody can choose between lets say ten group themes >> in >> >> > every time slot. If it goes for two days, with five time slots, that >> makes >> >> > 50 groups of which the everage participant chooses five groups. All the >> >> > other groups, their themes, their surprising developments, their >> exitement, >> >> > their outcome, does not exist for him. All the groups make some >> protocols, >> >> > but in the worst possible way, in handwriting, and some typed short >> version. >> >> > Our everage participant does rarely read the outcomes of other groups. >> The >> >> > facilitator made himself invisible and is of little help. So his horizon >> is >> >> > built from 10 percent of the whole meeting. He goes home with a >> beautiful >> >> > experience of team building and self organisation, and some memeory of >> 10 >> >> > percent of the meeting. The client goes home with some written excerpts, >> and >> >> > if he is lucky he will be confronted with some ideas afterwards, of >> people >> >> > who want to ontinue their threads. Who is helping him to build the >> bridge >> >> > between his basic theme, his exspectations, and the outcome? The >> >> > facilitator? By which means? >> >> > >> >> > I would wish all the os people could take part just once in a visualized >> os >> >> > event. Some witnesses, fair minded, impartial, are moving from group to >> >> > group, gathering process, results and atmosphere on small picture cards. >> >> > Nobody is noticing them. They put these picture cards into a big picture >> >> > wall, all the time, so that everybody who passes can get all the >> procedures >> >> > in some seconds time. And in the evening all the picture cards, >> digitalized >> >> > in the meantime, are shown to the plenum as a slide show with some >> music, >> >> > for about 10 minutes The participants not only increase the memory of >> their >> >> > own group from 20 to 60 percent, as scientists can proove, but at the >> same >> >> > time they get an overview about the whole big theme in all its >> complexity. >> >> > As if they can suddenly see the whole tree, of which they were busy >> handling >> >> > some branches so far. I experienced a deep satisfaction among the >> >> > participants every time we did that work. Of course all that is against >> the >> >> > old os dogma, but that does not bother the people at all. >> >> > >> >> > And the client? He gets a detailled insight into all the groups. The >> little >> >> > images can be used in many ways to foster sustainable outcomes, as you >> say. >> >> > They can be clustered, regrouped, with atonishing results, showing what >> >> > people really said and mean.They can be used as material to work with in >> >> > smaller groups who continue with some items, they can be put into the >> >> > intranet, printed as leaflets, little books, calendars, posters, hang in >> the >> >> > corridors ... As means to take the results really seriously. >> >> > >> >> > AND NOW THE BIG QUESTION: is that worth the extra costs of extra people, >> who >> >> > visualize the event? Some clients say yes, it is. It makes the >> difference >> >> > between a beautiful experience of self orgsnization and the welding of a >> >> > tool for the organization. >> >> > >> >> > I myself would not propose to visualize every os meeting by external >> >> > visualizers. I would like very much to experiment with internal >> >> > visualization. We developed different ways of visualizing by >> participants. >> >> > Once we made 800 union people in vienna draw in little groups, 72 >> images, >> >> > with an amazing result. >> >> > >> >> > I can imagine, that in every os group two or three people start to >> doodle, >> >> > to draw what they experience, on little cards. A bit like world cafe (I >> >> > propose to the world cafe people to use little cards as well). And then >> like >> >> > said before, the cards can be hung into the picture wall, group by >> geoup, >> >> > and shown in the evening as slide show. I would very much like to >> develop >> >> > this method and to make it available to the whole os community. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > mit freundlichen Grüßen >> >> > best regards >> >> > >> >> > Reinhard Kuchenmüller >> >> > >> >> > VISUELLE PROTOKOLLE >> >> > >> >> > tel. +39-0566 88929 >> >> > www.visuelle-protokolle.de >> >> > ________________________________________ >> >> > Von: Catherine Pfaehler [c.pfaeh...@bluewin.ch] >> >> > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. Juni 2009 17:15 >> >> > An: Reinhard Kuchenmueller >> >> > Cc: 'OSLIST' >> >> > Betreff: How can we foster sustainable outcomes? >> >> > >> >> > Dear Reinhard >> >> > >> >> > You have a very interesting point there. I have often wondered how the >> >> > sustainable implementation of visible results can be fostered "better" >> by >> >> > me, as in the post-OS-meeting, I often find my clients to focus on >> different >> >> > things than what I would have expected. >> >> > >> >> > Then, again, on the other side, I am well aware that a most important >> side >> >> > result of an OS event is always teambuilding, communication and a >> stronger >> >> > commitment to their organisation by many participants. And if I succeed >> in >> >> > allowing the client to really be responsible for what happens with the >> >> > results, then I need to let go after having asked the evaluation >> questions >> >> > and some others like "Does anything need a vessel for coordination now?" >> and >> >> > "What has been developing since the OS event?". >> >> > >> >> > Other opinions?? >> >> > >> >> > Heartfully, C. >> >> > >> >> > Catherine Pfaehler Senn >> >> > lic.oec.HSG >> >> > Open Space Begleitung >> >> > St. Alban-Vorstadt 15 >> >> > CH - 4052 Basel >> >> > +41-(0)76 - 488 15 46 >> >> > c.pfaeh...@open-space-begleitung.ch >> >> > www.open-space-begleitung.ch >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >> >> > Von: Reinhard Kuchenmueller [mailto:m...@visuelle-protokolle.de] >> >> > Gesendet: Montag, 22. Juni 2009 19:12 >> >> > Betreff: AW: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST - Foundations of OST? >> >> > >> >> > my two cents: >> >> > >> >> > a principle is defined as a law superordinated to every other law. >> >> > Condition: A certain effect can always be retraced to the same >> constellation >> >> > of facts. (wikipedia). >> >> > >> >> > In this sense Harrison's principles are definitively no principles at >> all. >> >> > But he was really clever: two martinis and four mundane sentences - and >> the >> >> > whole world is repeating them like a mantra. Mantras, as the east knows >> >> > since thousands of years, don't have to have a meaning, the essence lies >> >> > behind them. It only gets painful, if you start to worship the mantras >> >> > instead of the essence. >> >> > >> >> > Why is open space so effective? Certainly not because of the mantras. As >> I >> >> > see it, we have to dig deeper: >> >> > >> >> > I could think of principles like: >> >> > >> >> > People are basically interested - to engage themselves >> >> > - to take responsibility >> >> > - to interlink themselves >> >> > >> >> > That happens as soon as one stops to treat people like obstinate mules. >> >> > >> >> > And there exist conditions, which foster that, which support this so >> called >> >> > self organisation. >> >> > >> >> > Certainly open space technology, as it is practised worldwide, is an >> >> > excellent condition for self organisation. >> >> > >> >> > And your 'foundations' define it well. >> >> > >> >> > Rather often a client spends money for an open space event, and for the >> >> > facilitator who proposes open space as a tool for the clients' purposes. >> >> > This aspect seems to be underestimated in the debate. >> >> > >> >> > In my view the facilitator is responsible to link the proposed and >> choosen >> >> > form of the event, in our case open space, with the system and the >> purpose >> >> > of the client. What the client pays for is not the self organisation of >> his >> >> > people, that is only a beautiful side effect, and a bridge to engage >> people >> >> > in the affairs of the client - and more often simultaneously in their >> own >> >> > working conditions. >> >> > >> >> > I cannot understand the disinterest of many open space facilitators >> towards >> >> > the outcome and its linkage with the system of the client. >> >> > >> >> > That, in my eyes, is also the reason for the disinterest towards optimal >> >> > forms of recording the outcome - and as a visual facilitator I of course >> >> > propagate a visual form of protocol. >> >> > >> >> > The discussions in the os list are mainly conducted with the back to the >> >> > clients, and that is a pity. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > mit freundlichen Grüßen >> >> > best regards >> >> > >> >> > Reinhard Kuchenmüller >> >> > >> >> > VISUELLE PROTOKOLLE >> >> > >> >> > tel. +39-0566 88929 >> >> > www.visuelle-protokolle.de >> >> > ________________________________________ >> >> > Von: OSLIST [osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] im Auftrag von Artur Silva >> >> > [arturfsi...@yahoo.com] >> >> > Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. Juni 2009 18:25 >> >> > An: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu >> >> > Betreff: Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST - Foundations of OST? >> >> > >> >> > Larry: >> >> > >> >> > I am sorry but only today I had the time to answer you. >> >> > >> >> > We certainly need foundations or principles to Open Space. >> >> > >> >> > But I prefer the word "foundations" instead of "principles" because, due >> to >> >> > the man of the hat, this word is connected forever (only) with "the 4 >> >> > principles". And I think that that there are other principles >> (foundations) >> >> > as important as, or even more important than, the 4 so called >> principles. >> >> > >> >> > Indeed I think (sorry Harrison) that the expression "The 4 principles" >> was >> >> > badly chosen. >> >> > >> >> > Because it they are "what always happens" they are not principles at >> all. >> >> > And because we think that we must state the principles in the beginning >> of >> >> > every session (I myself to that the majority o the times - but not >> always") >> >> > and I am more and more convinced that they are useless. You can state >> them >> >> > or nor, and the same things will occur. They are probably "one less >> thing to >> >> > do/state". >> >> > >> >> > But there are other principles or foundations that are essential, in the >> >> > sense that if they are not present different things will happen. >> >> > >> >> > In the discussion I opened in our wiki some years ago I proposed the >> >> > following: >> >> > >> >> > 3. I would suggest, as HO wrote in the old User’s Guide, that OST begins >> >> > with: >> >> > >> >> > * A THEME that is compelling enough, but also general and open enough >> to >> >> > let people dream about and >> >> > * A GROUP OF COMMITED PEOPLE (reason for the presences to be almost >> >> > always voluntary) >> >> > * Enough DIVERSITY in the group >> >> > 4. To those foundations one can add others that are generally accepted >> by >> >> > all practitioners: >> >> > >> >> > * The CIRCLE (even if, in some cases, some argue that a "virtual >> circle" >> >> > will do) >> >> > * The Bulletin Board >> >> > * The Market Place >> >> > * The "law of two feet" (one of the most, if not the most important >> >> > feature, from where butterflies and bumblebees "germinate" and many >> >> > conflicts "evaporate") >> >> > * The "four principles" (as I have promised ;-) >> >> > >> >> > (http://www.openspaceworld.org/cgi/netwiki.cgi?FoundationsofOST) >> >> > >> >> > If I were to rewrite this today, I would surely suppress the last line. >> But >> >> > all the other "foundations" (including the law of two feet) are >> essential. >> >> > If you suppress one of them you will have a meeting; but not, IMHO, an >> OST >> >> > meeting. But we may not talk at all about the "4 principles" and >> everything >> >> > will happen as usual. >> >> > >> >> > Best regrsds to all >> >> > >> >> > Artur >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > --- On Thu, 5/28/09, Larry Peterson <la...@spiritedorg.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > From: Larry Peterson <la...@spiritedorg.com> >> >> > Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST - Foundations of OST? >> >> > To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu >> >> > Date: Thursday, May 28, 2009, 5:22 PM >> >> > >> >> > Maybe a “foundation” is another word for how I often describe the >> >> > “principles”. I encourage people, when I open a space, to make some >> >> > assumptions about the gathering to assume what are stated as principles >> and >> >> > to act on that basis during the event. I think these only become >> “assumed” >> >> > after some evolution of consciousness and I don’t experience most folks >> in >> >> > organizations being there. I think it is important to articulate them, >> to >> >> > influence the “social construction” of the boundaries of the OST event >> along >> >> > with the most important part – the focus question or theme. Yep, it may >> be >> >> > a bit of ritualized behaviour but I think it helps increase the >> >> > possibilities what will emerge in the self-organizing process that will >> >> > happen anyway. Besides, I (we as facilitators) are one of the “selves” >> in >> >> > the self-organization. >> >> > >> >> > Larry >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Larry Peterson & Associates in Transformation >> >> > Toronto, Ontario, Canada >> >> > la...@spiritedorg.com< >> http://us.mc546.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=larry@spi >> >> > ritedorg.com> 416.653.4829 >> >> > http://www.spiritedorg.com<http://www.spiritedorg.com/> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of Artur >> >> > Silva >> >> > Sent: May-27-09 5:54 PM >> >> > To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu >> >> > Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST - Foundations of OST? >> >> > >> >> > Harrison, Larry and all: >> >> > >> >> > I am afraid that I continue to read only the messages from this list >> from >> >> > time to time... >> >> > >> >> > Today, I read this answer from Harrison to a reply from Larry to an >> original >> >> > comment by Harrison. The 3 messages referred are listed below, and I ask >> you >> >> > to first read the parts of those messages that I have transformed in >> bold. >> >> > >> >> > (...) Thanks for having done that ;-) >> >> > >> >> > Now, I am happy that Harrison agrees that "the 4 principles and one law >> are >> >> > neither laws nor principles actually" and that there will come a day >> when >> >> > The Law and The Principles can be assigned to that wonderful status of >> “One >> >> > more thing not to do.” >> >> > >> >> > But Larry commented, very wisely as usual, about the importance of some >> form >> >> > of “boundaries” or “container” for self-organization. >> >> > >> >> > So, maybe it is the appropriate time to reintroduce a discussion that I >> have >> >> > tried to introduce many moons ago, about what are the foundations of >> OST. >> >> > >> >> > I mean, >> >> > >> >> > 1) if the principles are not "principles" after all, but only what >> always >> >> > happens, and eventually even "one more thing not to do" (and I remember >> you >> >> > that I have done some OST experiments without reference to the >> Principles - >> >> > and all went well as usual), but >> >> > >> >> > 2) Some form of boundary or container is needed >> >> > >> >> > where this boundary or container does comes from? >> >> > >> >> > I have proposed to call that the "foundations" (not principles) of OST >> and >> >> > proposed some ideas (that are only preliminary ideas) I would like to >> read >> >> > (again) your opinions about. >> >> > >> >> > You can found my (preliminary) proposals, of some time ago, here >> >> > http://www.openspaceworld.org/cgi/netwiki.cgi?FoundationsofOST >> >> > >> >> > and here >> >> > >> >> > >> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0401&L=oslist&P=R23925&I=-3&; >> >> > X=6543D44B5D0A7C3BC4&Y=arturfsilva%40yahoo.com. >> >> > >> >> > Looking forward to hear from you all >> >> > >> >> > Warn regards from a warm night in Lisbon >> >> > >> >> > Artur >> >> > >> >> > ------ >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > --- On Wed, 5/27/09, Harrison Owen <hho...@verizon.net> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > From: Harrison Owen <hho...@verizon.net> >> >> > Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST >> >> > To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu >> >> > Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 7:23 AM >> >> > Right on Larry – and I found a very curious and embarrassing typo in my >> >> > small piece. I said, “They (the Principles and the Law) are descriptive >> as >> >> > opposed to descriptive.” I meant to say,”They are descriptive as opposed >> to >> >> > prescriptive.” Point is neither the Law nor the Principles tell you what >> to >> >> > do – they simply alert everybody to what will be taking place no matter >> >> > what. I think that is a useful function, but it really doesn’t change a >> >> > thing. In short – there will come a day when The Law and The Principles >> can >> >> > be assigned to that wonderful status of “One more thing not to do.” >> >> > >> >> > Harrison >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Harrison Owen >> >> > >> >> > 7808 River Falls Drive >> >> > >> >> > Potomac, Maryland 20854 >> >> > >> >> > Phone 301-365-2093 >> >> > >> >> > Skype hhowen >> >> > >> >> > Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com< >> http://www.openspaceworld.com/> >> >> > >> >> > Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org< >> http://www.openspaceworld.org/> >> >> > >> >> > Personal website www.ho-image.com<http://www.ho-image.com/> >> >> > >> >> > OSLIST: To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the >> archives >> >> > Visit: >> >> > www.listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html< >> http://listserv.boisestate. >> >> > edu/archives/oslist.html> >> >> > >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> >> > From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of Larry >> >> > Peterson >> >> > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 9:44 AM >> >> > To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu >> >> > Subject: Re: Anti Laws of OST >> >> > >> >> > For me, there is more sense in the “Principles and Law” than non-sense. >> >> > Stewart Kauffman explores the importance of some form of “boundaries” or >> >> > “container” for self-organization, particularly that of cells. He >> believes >> >> > (with strong scientific evidence) that real physical work only gets done >> >> > within some “boundaries” or it dissipates. Cells, he asserts, co-create >> >> > their “boundaries” with their environment through self-organizing >> >> > relationships in every moment. The boundaries are permeable, >> constructs, >> >> > open to interchange with their environment. (No such thing as a closed >> >> > system!) >> >> > >> >> > Harrison, I believe you have articulated a set of socially constructed >> >> > permeable “boundaries” for enhancing human self-organization – including >> the >> >> > focus/theme, principles and law. These set a temporary set of >> “boundaries” >> >> > or a “container” both focused and open that change the perceived >> conditions >> >> > for self-organization at an event or meeting. Self-organization is >> >> > happening all the time, in every moment. Our mental maps (in practice) >> and >> >> > feelings shape what we do as we self-organize – what topics we propose >> and >> >> > who we connect to. Are they necessary for self-organization (Open >> Space) – >> >> > no, it is happening all the time as order emerges. Do they (or other >> >> > similar statements about the social framework for our self-organizing) >> help >> >> > people to self-organize in exciting and creative ways? I think so. >> >> > >> >> > Larry >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Larry Peterson & Associates in Transformation >> >> > Toronto, Ontario, Canada >> >> > la...@spiritedorg.com< >> http://us.mc546.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=larry@spi >> >> > ritedorg.com> 416.653.4829 >> >> > http://www.spiritedorg.com<http://www.spiritedorg.com/> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of >> Harrison >> >> > Owen >> >> > Sent: May-25-09 2:59 PM >> >> > To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu >> >> > Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST >> >> > >> >> > Just to render the whole thing non-sensical, the 4 principles and one >> law >> >> > are neither laws nor principles actually. To be honest they are just my >> (and >> >> > others’) observations of what seemed to be happening in any case. In a >> word >> >> > they are descriptive as opposed to descriptive – You could say it is all >> a >> >> > joke. Rather like “technology” in the phrase Open Space Technology. The >> >> > joke, however turned out to be outrageously funny – because somehow or >> >> > another truth broke through. We are in serious trouble! Everybody knows >> that >> >> > what happens in Open Space simply can’t happen. Unfortunately it does – >> and >> >> > that makes a joke out of a whole mess of other stuff – like most of what >> we >> >> > think we know about meetings, the management of meetings, and management >> >> > itself. Double trouble!! >> >> > >> >> > Harrison >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Harrison Owen >> >> > >> >> > 7808 River Falls Drive >> >> > >> >> > Potomac, Maryland 20854 >> >> > >> >> > Phone 301-365-2093 >> >> > >> >> > Skype hhowen >> >> > >> >> > Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com< >> http://www.openspaceworld.com/> >> >> > >> >> > Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org< >> http://www.openspaceworld.org/> >> >> > >> >> > Personal website www.ho-image.com<http://www.ho-image.com/> >> >> > >> >> > OSLIST: To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the >> archives >> >> > Visit: >> >> > www.listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html< >> http://listserv.boisestate. >> >> > edu/archives/oslist.html> >> >> > >> >> > .org/oslist >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > * * ========================================================== >> >> > osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To >> subscribe, >> >> > unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of >> >> > osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: >> >> > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about >> >> > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: >> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist >> >> > * * ========================================================== >> >> > osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To >> subscribe, >> >> > unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of >> >> > osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: >> >> > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about >> >> > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: >> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > * * ========================================================== >> >> > osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To >> subscribe, >> >> > unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of >> >> > osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: >> >> > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about >> >> > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: >> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist >> >> > >> >> > * >> >> > * >> >> > ========================================================== >> >> > osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu >> >> > ----------------------------- >> >> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, >> >> > view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: >> >> > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html >> >> > >> >> > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: >> >> > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist >> >> > >> >> > * >> >> > * >> >> > ========================================================== >> >> > osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu >> >> > ------------------------------ >> >> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, >> >> > view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: >> >> > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html >> >> > >> >> > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: >> >> > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist >> >> > >> >> >> -- >> >> Michael M Pannwitz, boscop eg >> >> Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin, Germany >> >> ++49-30-772 8000 >> >> mmpa...@boscop.org >> >> www.boscop.org >> >> >> >> Check out the Open Space World Map presently showing 447 resident Open >> >> Space Workers in 71 countries working in a total of 140 countries >> worldwide >> >> Have a look: >> >> www.openspaceworldmap.org >> >> >> * >> >> * >> >> ========================================================== >> >> osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, >> >> view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: >> >> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html >> >> >> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: >> >> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist >> * * ========================================================== >> osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To >> subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of >> osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: >> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about >> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > > * * ========================================================== > osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To > subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of > osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > > * * ========================================================== > osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To > subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of > osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist * * 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