Karen
Thanks for what you wrote, it reflects pretty accurately what I have
been feeling in response to the more attack-like and or disparaging
aspects of this interchange about creating appropriate cyber home(s)
for OST. (And I don't have any personal history with anyone on the
OSLIST).
Denise
On Nov 19, 2009, at 9:04 PM, Karen Sella wrote:
Hi Kaliya,
I agree that this conversation has been useful in helping you
organize your efforts around more truth, and I’m delighted that you
are taking responsibility for your passion in and for this
community. I appreciate your desire to offer more alternatives and
educate those of us with less technical prowess about the various
options. However, when you make disparaging remarks about Michael
(or anyone) and his website, I feel disrespected as a member of
this community. When you characterize a member of our community as
a “dominating” “dictator” who’s “blocking progress” and being
dishonest—not “coming clean”—I distrust both your motives and your
capacity for civil discourse. When you frame his website as a
“dysfunctional default” that is somehow less than the “new and
better real home” for this community that your efforts will
provide, I feel sad that in your efforts to build something new,
you neglect to express more appreciation for what is and what has
been. These comments seem unnecessarily dismissive and partial,
and undermine my desire to receive your potentially valuable
contribution. However, being open-minded, I followed the link in
your invitation, and upon arriving there was disappointed to find
more negative commentary about Michael and his website amidst more
productive suggestions about possible options.
While various professions do indeed have different "normative
conflict levels," and there are those in all professions who could
be described as “conflict-averse,” I suspect that much discomfort
here has less to do with normative conflict levels than differing
norms about how to deal with conflict. As my messages to date must
demonstrate, I am not conflict-averse, but I am averse to personal
attacks. Blaming, name-calling and yelling make me uncomfortable.
Unless one happens to be shouting for joy, shouting actually makes
it more difficult for me to hear and listen. In my experience,
these kinds of tactics, which we all are guilty of engaging in from
time to time, close rather than open space.
I understand from what you have shared that you are really
attempting to open space and improve this community’s online
experience. I can imagine how frustrating it must be to have a
clear vision of what you want and feel unheard or thwarted in your
attempts to garner the support to make it happen, and you are, of
course, entitled to share your opinions as you choose. However, I
would be more comfortable and more receptive to your efforts if you
could share your perspective without engaging in these kinds of
tactics. I think someone else mentioned Marshall Rosenberg’s,
Nonviolent Communication, which if you have not already discovered
it, is a great resource for learning constructive approaches to
communication congruent with the norms of this list-serv.
Sincerely,
Karen
lumina fr. L. light, air, opening...
Karen Sella
Coaching: www.luminacoaching.com
Consulting: www.integralventures.com
Phone: 1.206.780.2998
Skype: karensella
The information contained in this message may be privileged,
confidential and protected from disclosure. If you are not the
intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying is
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From: OSLIST [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Kaliya *
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [OSLIST] re honouring each other
On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 5:43 PM, Chris Corrigan
<[email protected]> wrote:
I'm a little late to this conversation but I'd like to add my two
cents.
Thank you to all who hold space for the various ways that we are
able to connect our work to people that need it. And thank you to
Michael for the tireless work he does on the openspace world website.
No one controls the number one spot in Google. It's all about how
many people link to you. If you have quality stuff and people link
to it you'll go higher in the rankings. I have no doubt that the
ning site has all the potential to be number one and that would be
great. But let's be clear that there is no way to conspire to keep
others out of the top spots.
These strange personal attacks on the list do nothing to advance
the community's work. It is highly out of character for this
community to engage like this. I know everyone involved in this
dispute personally and I am having a hard time ascribing motives or
squaring what I am reading with what i know of these people
personally.
We can all be prickly at times but is this a fight that is
necessary to have?
Yes.
It got some things out in the open and on the table.
Clarity about who owns and controls what and how they "really" want
to manage/hold things on behalf of the community.
Now that things are clearer we have more options - more openness -
rather then being stuck in what was a dysfunctional default (the
way it always was).
I realized in working with a journalism focused group that the tech
industry has a "higher normative conflict level" then many other
professional fields.
The primary community that I facilitate open space for in that
world - the Internet Identity Workshop - http://
www.internetidentityworkshop.com is going into it's 10th meeting
this coming May. The largest tech companies on the web are all in
there and all in sort of ongoing "perma-conflict" re how things
will evolve and they all love each other and cooperate with each
other.
I am sorry if this dialogue has made those of you who as
facilitators are conflict averse feel "uncomfortable" but it is
through naming and challenging and getting clarity about what
people really mean and what their intentions are that we can move
forward.
-Kaliya
With gratitude for passion bounded by responsibility.
Chris
-----
CHRIS CORRIGAN
http://www.chriscorrigan.com
Sent from an iPod, typed with thumbs...
On 2009-11-18, at 3:18, Tree Fitzpatrick
<[email protected]> wrote:
For what it is worth, I experience Kaliya's comments as powerful,
even courageous efforts to open space.
For what it is worth, I experience Michael's comments as name-
calling, denigrating, invalidating, dishonoring. I find myself
wishing he would make less attack statements and more 'I'
statements, telling us what he thinks and feels without attacking
others shared thoughts and feelings.
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Karen Sella
<[email protected]> wrote:
For what it's worth, I experienced all the comments from Michael
and others
as adding useful perspectives to the conversation--not
invalidating or
dishonoring... just sharing yet another perspective.
Warmly,
Karen
Karen Sella
Coaching: www.luminacoaching.com
Consulting: www.integralventures.com
Blog: www.lumina.typepad.com
Phone: 1.206.780.2998
Skype: karensella
lumina fr. L. light, air, opening...
The information contained in this message may be privileged,
confidential
and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended
recipient, any
dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If
you think
that you have received this message in error, please notify the
sender by
reply and delete the message and any attachments.
-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Kathie
Wallace
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:10 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [OSLIST] re honouring each other
Hi Everyone,
I have been following this community for a while and will soon start
sharing info. Many thanks for all the enlivening info. I am grateful.
I feel the need to speak in response to Michael's comments re
Kaliya's
thoughts.
OST is about staying open and positive and welcoming of all
perspectives
and ideas, as I experience it. Critiquing and judging and saying
"no" to
ideas stops the new, constantly self-emerging outflowing of ideas
that is
creating a continual shared meaning among us all that excites me
to no
end.
All of Kaliya's ideas are valid.
Michael, may I suggest you own your own ideas more powerfully by
using
phrases like "in my opinion" or using the pronoun "I" rather than
"you"
when you share your own ideas.
...and on with the OST dance,
Sincerely,
Kathie Wallace
Vancouver, BC, Canada
*
*
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--
Love rays,
Tree Fitzpatrick (check out my new address)
. . . the great and incalculable grace of love, which says, with
Augustine, "I want you to be," without being able to give any
particular reason for such supreme and unsurpassable affirmation.
-- Hannah Arendt
2175 Kittredge St Apt 615
Berkeley, CA 94704
510-665-4825
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