Developing Open Space further: Yes. Spirited Work an Open Space learning community of practice at the Whidbey Institute for almost 7 full years.
I wrote a short piece about it. Contact me if you want a link (I have to find it again.) Sent from my iPhone Anne M. Stadler 18464–47th Place NE Lake Forest Park, WA 98155 206-459-0227 Skype: Anne.M.Stadler A world that works for all is a world of love made visible. www.SourcingtheWay.com www.StoryBridge.space www.CharterforCompassion.org www.thrivingcommunities.org > On Aug 13, 2018, at 2:21 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > Send OSList mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of OSList digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Is there experience in developing Open Space further in > organizations and networks after the initial intervention (R Chaffe) > 2. Re: Is there experience in developing Open Space further in > organizations and networks after the initial intervention > ([email protected]) > 3. Re: Is there experience in developing Open Space further in > organizations and networks after the initial intervention > (Robin Muretisch, Facilitative Insights, LLC) > 4. Re: Is there experience in developing Open Space further in > organizations and networks after the initial intervention > (Harrison Owen) > 5. Re: Is there experience in developing Open Space further in > organizations and networks after the initial intervention > (Michael Herman) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 09:04:13 +1000 > From: R Chaffe <[email protected]> > To: World wide Open Space Technology email list > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space > further in organizations and networks after the initial intervention > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Harrison, yes. > > On the other hand a client almost demanded that I increase my fee by 30%. My > comment was we had a contract and I intended to keep to the agreed cost. The > underlying issue was that my event had been so successful that it made other > similar events look very expensive. Yet all that happened was that the > process gave voice to all present. > > > Rob > >> On 13 Aug 2018, at 12:41 am, Harrison Owen via OSList >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Rob ? you have identified one of the most curious aspects of dealing with >> clients and/or potential clients regarding Open Space. It?s too simple. >> Couldn?t possibly happen, and doesn?t cost enough. I had one (major) >> corporate client who told me to double my fee otherwise, he said, he >> couldn?t possibly get the contract through the front office. I did what he >> asked and always felt rather guilty about it all. But he was very happy, and >> of course the Open Space ?worked? as usual. For obvious reasons all names >> are withheld to protect the innocent and gullible J >> >> ho >> >> From: OSList [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of R >> Chaffe via OSList >> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2018 10:02 PM >> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list >> Cc: R Chaffe >> Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space further >> in organizations and networks after the initial intervention >> >> Harrison, the process is so comfortable ie sitting in circles, speaking when >> there is something to say, listening to others, keeping our minds open to >> insights and differences etc. Yes we do it all the time! Therein lies an >> issue for those looking for the ?silver? bullet from ?outside? as the >> promise we can make is for an opportunity to explore issues and >> opportunities associated with a particular question we have little control >> on what might come and we have faith in the community of concern will have >> the best ways of dealing with their concern. Sometimes it is a ?road to >> Damascus experience and most of the time it is an insight that needs to be >> explored. This raises another issue for those who think the one meeting >> will be all that is required and blindly race into the future thinking that >> change is something that others do. Opening the space is more a process >> than an event and seeing / believing in this is one of the main stays of >> Open Space along with the faith that withi > n the community of concern we have the power to implement insights and > directions gained from empowering the community to ?live?. >> >> Regards >> Rob >> >> On 12 Aug 2018, at 5:09 am, Jan Hoglund via OSList >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Thanks for your reflections Harrison! >> >> Rachel Naomi Remen also speaks about 'who and what' we already are: >> >> "The power to repair the world is already in you." >> "In befriending life, we do not make things happen according to our own >> design. We uncover something that is already happening in us and around us >> and create conditions that enable it. Everything is moving toward its place >> of wholeness. Befriending life requires that we listen for that potential >> which is trying to actualize itself over time. ? It is not about mastering >> life, controlling it or exerting our will over it, no matter how well >> intentioned our will may be. ? It means listening to life from the place in >> us that is connected to the wholeness around us. The place in us that is >> also whole." >> ?Rachel Naomi Remen, My Grandfather's Blessings >> >> I assume this is somewhat in line with your thinking? Maybe 'blessing' a >> space, or an organization, is a way to open it further? And it opens >> yourself. Just a thought. >> >> Thanks again, >> /Jan H?glund, Sweden >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list >> To post send emails to [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >> Past archives can be viewed here: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list >> To post send emails to [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >> Past archives can be viewed here: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20180813/3fa7ed4c/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 13:19:27 +1000 > From: <[email protected]> > To: "'World wide Open Space Technology email list'" > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space > further in organizations and networks after the initial intervention > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Harrison and Rob, > > I similarly put in a quote for making a multimedia video/presentation for an > environmental engineering company. The project manager contacted me and said > I was far and away the best qualified person for the job but my quote was far > and away the lowest ? would I consider doubling it to avoid embarrassing the > others... > > What can you say? > > David Smith > > > > > > Dr David Smith > BSc(Hons) PhD FRSA > Trading as imaginACTION > > 50 Sweyn Street > Balwyn North > Victoria 3104 > AUSTRALIA > > t +613 9857 8688 > m 0411 444 048 > [email protected] > www.imaginaction.net.au <http://www.imaginaction.net.au/> > > > iA > > imaginACTION > Winner 2016 Victorian Community History Award > > for Historical Interpretation > > Duldig Studio Documentaries DVD > > > > Overall Winner, > Australian Achiever Awards > Victorian TV, Film, Audio and Video > > > > > > > > From: OSList [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of R > Chaffe via OSList > Sent: 13 August, 2018 9:04 AM > To: World wide Open Space Technology email list > Cc: R Chaffe > Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space further in > organizations and networks after the initial intervention > > > > Harrison, yes. > > > > On the other hand a client almost demanded that I increase my fee by 30%. My > comment was we had a contract and I intended to keep to the agreed cost. The > underlying issue was that my event had been so successful that it made other > similar events look very expensive. Yet all that happened was that the > process gave voice to all present. > > > > Rob > > > On 13 Aug 2018, at 12:41 am, Harrison Owen via OSList > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Rob ? you have identified one of the most curious aspects of dealing with > clients and/or potential clients regarding Open Space. It?s too simple. > Couldn?t possibly happen, and doesn?t cost enough. I had one (major) > corporate client who told me to double my fee otherwise, he said, he couldn?t > possibly get the contract through the front office. I did what he asked and > always felt rather guilty about it all. But he was very happy, and of course > the Open Space ?worked? as usual. For obvious reasons all names are withheld > to protect the innocent and gullible J > > > > ho > > > > From: OSList [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of R > Chaffe via OSList > Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2018 10:02 PM > To: World wide Open Space Technology email list > Cc: R Chaffe > Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space further in > organizations and networks after the initial intervention > > > > Harrison, the process is so comfortable ie sitting in circles, speaking when > there is something to say, listening to others, keeping our minds open to > insights and differences etc. Yes we do it all the time! Therein lies an > issue for those looking for the ?silver? bullet from ?outside? as the promise > we can make is for an opportunity to explore issues and opportunities > associated with a particular question we have little control on what might > come and we have faith in the community of concern will have the best ways of > dealing with their concern. Sometimes it is a ?road to Damascus experience > and most of the time it is an insight that needs to be explored. This > raises another issue for those who think the one meeting will be all that is > required and blindly race into the future thinking that change is something > that others do. Opening the space is more a process than an event and seeing > / believing in this is one of the main stays of Open Space along with the > faith that within > the community of concern we have the power to implement insights and > directions gained from empowering the community to ?live?. > > Regards > > Rob > > > On 12 Aug 2018, at 5:09 am, Jan Hoglund via OSList > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Thanks for your reflections Harrison! > > Rachel Naomi Remen also speaks about 'who and what' we already are: > > "The power to repair the world is already in you." > "In befriending life, we do not make things happen according to our own > design. We uncover something that is already happening in us and around us > and create conditions that enable it. Everything is moving toward its place > of wholeness. Befriending life requires that we listen for that potential > which is trying to actualize itself over time. ? It is not about mastering > life, controlling it or exerting our will over it, no matter how well > intentioned our will may be. ? It means listening to life from the place in > us that is connected to the wholeness around us. The place in us that is also > whole." > ?Rachel Naomi Remen, My Grandfather's Blessings > > I assume this is somewhat in line with your thinking? Maybe 'blessing' a > space, or an organization, is a way to open it further? And it opens > yourself. Just a thought. > > Thanks again, > /Jan H?glund, Sweden > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20180813/61233a41/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 16:14:38 +0000 > From: "Robin Muretisch, Facilitative Insights, LLC" > <[email protected]> > To: World wide Open Space Technology email list > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space > further in organizations and networks after the initial intervention > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi. I?ve recently started my own facilitation business, coming from many > years in a corporate environment. Having a reference for going rates would > be helpful, to ensure I?m charging clients appropriately. I?ve scoured > OpenSpaceWorld.org (amazingly helpful site!!) but can?t find anything on > rates. Is there a resource you could point me to (on that site or elsewhere) > that provides going rates for Open Space Facilitation in various regions of > the world/countries? Thanks. > > Robin D. H. Muretisch, CPF, MBA, CPA > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> | 770.371.5874 | > [cid:[email protected]] > <https://www.linkedin.com/in/robin-muretisch/> > [facinsightslogo - FULL] > > > From: OSList <[email protected]> On Behalf Of David > Smith via OSList > Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 11:19 PM > To: 'World wide Open Space Technology email list' > <[email protected]> > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space further in > organizations and networks after the initial intervention > > Hi Harrison and Rob, > I similarly put in a quote for making a multimedia video/presentation for an > environmental engineering company. The project manager contacted me and said > I was far and away the best qualified person for the job but my quote was far > and away the lowest ? would I consider doubling it to avoid embarrassing the > others... > What can you say? > David Smith > > > Dr David Smith > BSc(Hons) PhD FRSA > Trading as imaginACTION > > 50 Sweyn Street > Balwyn North > Victoria 3104 > AUSTRALIA > > t +613 9857 8688 > m 0411 444 048 > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > www.imaginaction.net.au<http://www.imaginaction.net.au/> > > iA > imaginACTION > Winner 2016 Victorian Community History Award > for Historical Interpretation > Duldig Studio Documentaries DVD > > Overall Winner, > Australian Achiever Awards > Victorian TV, Film, Audio and Video > > > > From: OSList [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of R > Chaffe via OSList > Sent: 13 August, 2018 9:04 AM > To: World wide Open Space Technology email list > Cc: R Chaffe > Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space further in > organizations and networks after the initial intervention > > Harrison, yes. > > On the other hand a client almost demanded that I increase my fee by 30%. My > comment was we had a contract and I intended to keep to the agreed cost. The > underlying issue was that my event had been so successful that it made other > similar events look very expensive. Yet all that happened was that the > process gave voice to all present. > > Rob > > On 13 Aug 2018, at 12:41 am, Harrison Owen via OSList > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > Rob ? you have identified one of the most curious aspects of dealing with > clients and/or potential clients regarding Open Space. It?s too simple. > Couldn?t possibly happen, and doesn?t cost enough. I had one (major) > corporate client who told me to double my fee otherwise, he said, he couldn?t > possibly get the contract through the front office. I did what he asked and > always felt rather guilty about it all. But he was very happy, and of course > the Open Space ?worked? as usual. For obvious reasons all names are withheld > to protect the innocent and gullible ? > > ho > > From: OSList [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of R > Chaffe via OSList > Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2018 10:02 PM > To: World wide Open Space Technology email list > Cc: R Chaffe > Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space further in > organizations and networks after the initial intervention > > Harrison, the process is so comfortable ie sitting in circles, speaking when > there is something to say, listening to others, keeping our minds open to > insights and differences etc. Yes we do it all the time! Therein lies an > issue for those looking for the ?silver? bullet from ?outside? as the promise > we can make is for an opportunity to explore issues and opportunities > associated with a particular question we have little control on what might > come and we have faith in the community of concern will have the best ways of > dealing with their concern. Sometimes it is a ?road to Damascus experience > and most of the time it is an insight that needs to be explored. This > raises another issue for those who think the one meeting will be all that is > required and blindly race into the future thinking that change is something > that others do. Opening the space is more a process than an event and seeing > / believing in this is one of the main stays of Open Space along with the > faith that within > the community of concern we have the power to implement insights and > directions gained from empowering the community to ?live?. > Regards > Rob > > On 12 Aug 2018, at 5:09 am, Jan Hoglund via OSList > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > Thanks for your reflections Harrison! > > Rachel Naomi Remen also speaks about 'who and what' we already are: > > "The power to repair the world is already in you." > "In befriending life, we do not make things happen according to our own > design. We uncover something that is already happening in us and around us > and create conditions that enable it. Everything is moving toward its place > of wholeness. Befriending life requires that we listen for that potential > which is trying to actualize itself over time. ? It is not about mastering > life, controlling it or exerting our will over it, no matter how well > intentioned our will may be. ? It means listening to life from the place in > us that is connected to the wholeness around us. The place in us that is also > whole." > ?Rachel Naomi Remen, My Grandfather's Blessings > > I assume this is somewhat in line with your thinking? Maybe 'blessing' a > space, or an organization, is a way to open it further? And it opens > yourself. Just a thought. > > Thanks again, > /Jan H?glund, Sweden > > > > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > To unsubscribe send an email to > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > To unsubscribe send an email to > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20180813/6b691129/attachment-0001.html> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image001.jpg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 843 bytes > Desc: image001.jpg > URL: > <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20180813/6b691129/attachment-0001.jpg> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image003.png > Type: image/png > Size: 8479 bytes > Desc: image003.png > URL: > <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20180813/6b691129/attachment-0001.png> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 12:59:35 -0400 > From: "Harrison Owen" <[email protected]> > To: "'World wide Open Space Technology email list'" > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space > further in organizations and networks after the initial intervention > Message-ID: <000501d43327$044e79e0$0ceb6da0$@com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Lots of luck! I can only talk about my rates which run from $0 to > embarrassing. Or doubling embarrassing if I am forced to look like a ?real > consultant.? Short take? There is no such thing as a ?standard rate? anywhere > on the globe that I am aware of. So what do you do? My approach was always to > ask two questions. 1) What did the client hope to achieve? And 2) How much > would that be worth, if it happened? Depending on the answers and the client, > we eventually came up with some appropriate rate. Which, as I said, ran from > $0 to $Embarrassing (to me). > > > > Good Luck! > > > > ho > > > > From: OSList [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Robin Muretisch, Facilitative Insights, LLC via OSList > Sent: Monday, August 13, 2018 12:15 PM > To: World wide Open Space Technology email list > Cc: Robin Muretisch, Facilitative Insights, LLC > Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space further in > organizations and networks after the initial intervention > > > > Hi. I?ve recently started my own facilitation business, coming from many > years in a corporate environment. Having a reference for going rates would > be helpful, to ensure I?m charging clients appropriately. I?ve scoured > OpenSpaceWorld.org (amazingly helpful site!!) but can?t find anything on > rates. Is there a resource you could point me to (on that site or elsewhere) > that provides going rates for Open Space Facilitation in various regions of > the world/countries? Thanks. > > > > Robin D. H. Muretisch, CPF, MBA, CPA > > <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] | 770.371.5874 | > <https://www.linkedin.com/in/robin-muretisch/> > cid:[email protected] > > facinsightslogo - FULL > > > > > > From: OSList <[email protected]> On Behalf Of David > Smith via OSList > Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 11:19 PM > To: 'World wide Open Space Technology email list' > <[email protected]> > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space further in > organizations and networks after the initial intervention > > > > Hi Harrison and Rob, > > I similarly put in a quote for making a multimedia video/presentation for an > environmental engineering company. The project manager contacted me and said > I was far and away the best qualified person for the job but my quote was far > and away the lowest ? would I consider doubling it to avoid embarrassing the > others... > > What can you say? > > David Smith > > > > > > Dr David Smith > BSc(Hons) PhD FRSA > Trading as imaginACTION > > 50 Sweyn Street > Balwyn North > Victoria 3104 > AUSTRALIA > > t +613 9857 8688 > m 0411 444 048 > [email protected] > www.imaginaction.net.au <http://www.imaginaction.net.au/> > > > iA > > imaginACTION > Winner 2016 Victorian Community History Award > > for Historical Interpretation > > Duldig Studio Documentaries DVD > > > > Overall Winner, > Australian Achiever Awards > Victorian TV, Film, Audio and Video > > > > > > > > From: OSList [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of R > Chaffe via OSList > Sent: 13 August, 2018 9:04 AM > To: World wide Open Space Technology email list > Cc: R Chaffe > Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space further in > organizations and networks after the initial intervention > > > > Harrison, yes. > > > > On the other hand a client almost demanded that I increase my fee by 30%. My > comment was we had a contract and I intended to keep to the agreed cost. The > underlying issue was that my event had been so successful that it made other > similar events look very expensive. Yet all that happened was that the > process gave voice to all present. > > > > Rob > > > On 13 Aug 2018, at 12:41 am, Harrison Owen via OSList > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Rob ? you have identified one of the most curious aspects of dealing with > clients and/or potential clients regarding Open Space. It?s too simple. > Couldn?t possibly happen, and doesn?t cost enough. I had one (major) > corporate client who told me to double my fee otherwise, he said, he couldn?t > possibly get the contract through the front office. I did what he asked and > always felt rather guilty about it all. But he was very happy, and of course > the Open Space ?worked? as usual. For obvious reasons all names are withheld > to protect the innocent and gullible J > > > > ho > > > > From: OSList [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of R > Chaffe via OSList > Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2018 10:02 PM > To: World wide Open Space Technology email list > Cc: R Chaffe > Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space further in > organizations and networks after the initial intervention > > > > Harrison, the process is so comfortable ie sitting in circles, speaking when > there is something to say, listening to others, keeping our minds open to > insights and differences etc. Yes we do it all the time! Therein lies an > issue for those looking for the ?silver? bullet from ?outside? as the promise > we can make is for an opportunity to explore issues and opportunities > associated with a particular question we have little control on what might > come and we have faith in the community of concern will have the best ways of > dealing with their concern. Sometimes it is a ?road to Damascus experience > and most of the time it is an insight that needs to be explored. This > raises another issue for those who think the one meeting will be all that is > required and blindly race into the future thinking that change is something > that others do. Opening the space is more a process than an event and seeing > / believing in this is one of the main stays of Open Space along with the > faith that within > the community of concern we have the power to implement insights and > directions gained from empowering the community to ?live?. > > Regards > > Rob > > > On 12 Aug 2018, at 5:09 am, Jan Hoglund via OSList > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Thanks for your reflections Harrison! > > Rachel Naomi Remen also speaks about 'who and what' we already are: > > "The power to repair the world is already in you." > "In befriending life, we do not make things happen according to our own > design. We uncover something that is already happening in us and around us > and create conditions that enable it. Everything is moving toward its place > of wholeness. Befriending life requires that we listen for that potential > which is trying to actualize itself over time. ? It is not about mastering > life, controlling it or exerting our will over it, no matter how well > intentioned our will may be. ? It means listening to life from the place in > us that is connected to the wholeness around us. The place in us that is also > whole." > ?Rachel Naomi Remen, My Grandfather's Blessings > > I assume this is somewhat in line with your thinking? Maybe 'blessing' a > space, or an organization, is a way to open it further? And it opens > yourself. Just a thought. > > Thanks again, > /Jan H?glund, Sweden > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20180813/97fcd969/attachment-0001.html> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image001.jpg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 843 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: > <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20180813/97fcd969/attachment-0001.jpg> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image002.png > Type: image/png > Size: 8479 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: > <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20180813/97fcd969/attachment-0001.png> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 11:48:31 -0600 > From: Michael Herman <[email protected]> > To: World wide Open Space Technology email list > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space > further in organizations and networks after the initial intervention > Message-ID: > <CAD8j=QG4CQLEQy9wvxhTgf6jOzUs=wsnchdxyxd00rhbqr7...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > In my experience, Robin, every situation is different. If there was such a > table, I suspect it would have MANY rates. Kind of like asking, "What is > the going rate for an artist?" Depends greatly on the artist, the asker, > and many things about the situation and duration of the work/impact > desired. Sometimes there is already a budget, so quoting prices doesn't > matter and it's more a question of what can be done within that limit. > Other times, there is an emphasis on the quality of the work such that any > price is okay as long as everything goes well. Sometimes it surprises > clients that there should be preparation time, it's not just a technical > task we show up for the day of the meeting/event. > > If there's any rule at all for me, it might be that the conversation needs > to focus first on what's happening, what's desired and expected, what's > already decided and where there might be uncertainty or complete unknowns. > All of these things in terms of the context, the leadership/sponsorhip, the > invitation, invitation list, logistics, documentation or otherwise keeping > things going, AND in terms of budget, previous experience with OS or other > facilitators. The tricky part, in my experience, is that the most > important work often happens in the earliest conversations, before anyone > agrees to pay anything. So it's a bit of line to walk, helping them > see/understand the value but not spending too much time/energy before > there's a commitment. And that line is different with every potential and > situation. > > I once had a first meeting with a leader and her board chair. They decided > against doing the "event" we'd discussed, but she said she wanted to pay me > something, anyway. Turns out we'd opened enough space in our first > conversation that she'd gotten to raise the issues that mattered most and > gotten important "action" on them. So we agreed on a fee and I sent her an > invoice. What I take from this and some of the previous stories in this > thread is that we need to be quoting for their value not our time. I > estimate days, but I share more and less of that calculation as needed in > any situation. I try to keep the focus on what we need to do, toward > achieving what large and important purpose, with no guarantees or promises > to control the group, for what total fee. And sometimes the "daily rate" > is quite high. Then, having agreed to that fee, I spend whatever time I > find is needed. So any quoted rate may or may not end up being the actual > rate earned. With experience and with the learning we do in the first > conversation(s), focused on the work not the fee, we can do pretty well > with the estimating. > > Speaking of invoices, I guess the one other "rule" I have is that once we > have that initial conversation and agree on some scope of engagement and > fee amount, with almost every client, that fee is billed in two parts. The > first half is billed and payable immediately, the second half plus expenses > is billed upon completion. Sometimes the plane ticket gets rolled into the > first invoice. This accomplishes a lot of useful things. One of which is > that it de-emphasizes contracting that often has a legalistic, us-them, > and/or guarantees flavor to it and emphasizes, instead, real action. When > they say, "Book a ticket and send the first invoice," we all know it's > really game on, going to happen. Another is that in the most complex, > energy-intensive situations, which tend to be the higher fees, when I show > up, only half my pay feels "at risk." It feels like my client and I go > into the unknown of the opening circle with more balance in the risk and > relationship. > > Geoff Bellman, in his book, "The Consultant's Calling," has a little bit on > this topic. The line I remember best and use from time to time is, "I'd > like to make/earn/bill $____ for this work." It's not about imposing a fee > structure. It's maybe not up to the consultant at all. But there is also > sense of "This is what I think this is worth" and "This is what I'd feel > good about trading for the energy I think this is going to take." Implicit > in the latter is some expectation of the energy that'll be required. And > if that quoted price is outside of what's expected, there are several lines > to pursue in the conversation that follows. Often, I propose a range, as > well, which gives me some wiggle room, because we never really know what > we're walking into. It's nice to make a little extra when the going gets > rough in preparations or the work proves especially valuable and it's nice > to leave a little on the table when things go easy or maybe unsettling > things turn up at the end. > > So maybe there are at least two questions inside of your question, Robin... > How much do you think clients will pay for our work (how/how much do they > value our work)? AND how much do you like to get paid for doing this kind > of work? And then, for what sorts of clients, issues, purposes, places, > etc. And then, what do we do when the two numbers are different? Or when > your value and mine are perceived as equal by a client out facilitator > shopping, but each us wants to get paid something different? > > Michael > > > > -- > > Michael Herman > Michael Herman Associates > 312-280-7838 (mobile) > > http://MichaelHerman.com > http://OpenSpaceWorld.org > > > > On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 10:14 AM, Robin Muretisch, Facilitative Insights, > LLC via OSList <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi. I?ve recently started my own facilitation business, coming from many >> years in a corporate environment. Having a reference for going rates would >> be helpful, to ensure I?m charging clients appropriately. I?ve scoured >> OpenSpaceWorld.org (amazingly helpful site!!) but can?t find anything on >> rates. Is there a resource you could point me to (on that site or >> elsewhere) that provides going rates for Open Space Facilitation in various >> regions of the world/countries? Thanks. >> >> >> >> Robin D. H. Muretisch, CPF, MBA, CPA >> >> [email protected] | 770.371.5874 | [image: >> cid:[email protected]] >> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/robin-muretisch/> >> >> [image: facinsightslogo - FULL] >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* OSList <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *David >> Smith via OSList >> *Sent:* Sunday, August 12, 2018 11:19 PM >> *To:* 'World wide Open Space Technology email list' < >> [email protected]> >> *Cc:* [email protected] >> >> *Subject:* Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space >> further in organizations and networks after the initial intervention >> >> >> >> Hi Harrison and Rob, >> >> I similarly put in a quote for making a multimedia video/presentation for >> an environmental engineering company. The project manager contacted me and >> said I was far and away the best qualified person for the job but my quote >> was far and away the lowest ? would I consider doubling it to avoid >> embarrassing the others... >> >> What can you say? >> >> David Smith >> >> >> >> >> >> Dr David Smith >> BSc(Hons) PhD FRSA >> Trading as imaginACTION >> >> 50 Sweyn Street >> Balwyn North >> Victoria 3104 >> AUSTRALIA >> >> t +613 9857 8688 >> m 0411 444 048 >> [email protected] >> www.imaginaction.net.au >> >> >> iA >> >> imaginACTION >> Winner 2016 Victorian Community History Award >> >> for Historical Interpretation >> >> *Duldig Studio Documentaries DVD* >> >> >> >> Overall Winner, >> Australian Achiever Awards >> * Victorian TV, Film, Audio and Video* >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* OSList [mailto:[email protected] >> <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *R Chaffe via >> OSList >> *Sent:* 13 August, 2018 9:04 AM >> *To:* World wide Open Space Technology email list >> *Cc:* R Chaffe >> *Subject:* Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space >> further in organizations and networks after the initial intervention >> >> >> >> Harrison, yes. >> >> >> >> On the other hand a client almost demanded that I increase my fee by 30%. >> My comment was we had a contract and I intended to keep to the agreed >> cost. The underlying issue was that my event had been so successful that >> it made other similar events look very expensive. Yet all that happened >> was that the process gave voice to all present. >> >> >> >> Rob >> >> >> On 13 Aug 2018, at 12:41 am, Harrison Owen via OSList < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> Rob ? you have identified one of the most curious aspects of dealing with >> clients and/or potential clients regarding Open Space. It?s too simple. >> Couldn?t possibly happen, and doesn?t cost enough. I had one (major) >> corporate client who told me to double my fee otherwise, he said, he >> couldn?t possibly get the contract through the front office. I did what he >> asked and always felt rather guilty about it all. But he was very happy, >> and of course the Open Space ?worked? as usual. For obvious reasons all >> names are withheld to protect the innocent and gullible J >> >> >> >> ho >> >> >> >> *From:* OSList [mailto:[email protected] >> <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *R Chaffe via >> OSList >> *Sent:* Saturday, August 11, 2018 10:02 PM >> *To:* World wide Open Space Technology email list >> *Cc:* R Chaffe >> *Subject:* Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space >> further in organizations and networks after the initial intervention >> >> >> >> Harrison, the process is so comfortable ie sitting in circles, speaking >> when there is something to say, listening to others, keeping our minds open >> to insights and differences etc. Yes we do it all the time! Therein lies >> an issue for those looking for the ?silver? bullet from ?outside? as the >> promise we can make is for an opportunity to explore issues and >> opportunities associated with a particular question we have little control >> on what might come and we have faith in the community of concern will have >> the best ways of dealing with their concern. Sometimes it is a ?road to >> Damascus experience and most of the time it is an insight that needs to be >> explored. This raises another issue for those who think the one meeting >> will be all that is required and blindly race into the future thinking that >> change is something that others do. Opening the space is more a process >> than an event and seeing / believing in this is one of the main stays of >> Open Space along with the faith that within the community of concern we >> have the power to implement insights and directions gained from empowering >> the community to ?live?. >> >> Regards >> >> Rob >> >> >> On 12 Aug 2018, at 5:09 am, Jan Hoglund via OSList < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> Thanks for your reflections Harrison! >> >> Rachel Naomi Remen also speaks about 'who and what' we already are: >> >> "The power to repair the world is already in you." >> "In befriending life, we do not make things happen according to our own >> design. We uncover something that is already happening in us and around us >> and create conditions that enable it. Everything is moving toward its place >> of wholeness. Befriending life requires that we listen for that potential >> which is trying to actualize itself over time. ? It is not about mastering >> life, controlling it or exerting our will over it, no matter how well >> intentioned our will may be. ? It means listening to life from the place in >> us that is connected to the wholeness around us. The place in us that is >> also whole." >> ?Rachel Naomi Remen, My Grandfather's Blessings >> >> I assume this is somewhat in line with your thinking? Maybe 'blessing' a >> space, or an organization, is a way to open it further? And it opens >> yourself. Just a thought. >> >> Thanks again, >> /Jan H?glund, Sweden >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list >> To post send emails to [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/ >> [email protected] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list >> To post send emails to [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/ >> [email protected] >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list >> To post send emails to [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/ >> [email protected] >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20180813/15528b1c/attachment-0001.html> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image001.jpg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 843 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: > <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20180813/15528b1c/attachment-0001.jpg> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image003.png > Type: image/png > Size: 8479 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: > <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20180813/15528b1c/attachment-0001.png> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > ------------------------------ > > End of OSList Digest, Vol 88, Issue 7 > ************************************* _______________________________________________ OSList mailing list To post send emails to [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]
