Yes,’please send the link! 😊 Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 13, 2018, at 5:03 PM, anne stadler via OSList > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Developing Open Space further: > > Yes. Spirited Work an Open Space learning community of practice at the > Whidbey Institute for almost 7 full years. > > I wrote a short piece about it. Contact me if you want a link (I have to > find it again.) > > > Sent from my iPhone > > Anne M. Stadler > 18464–47th Place NE > Lake Forest Park, WA > 98155 > > 206-459-0227 > Skype: Anne.M.Stadler > > A world that works for all is a world of love made visible. > > www.SourcingtheWay.com > www.StoryBridge.space > www.CharterforCompassion.org > www.thrivingcommunities.org > >> On Aug 13, 2018, at 2:21 PM, [email protected] wrote: >> >> Send OSList mailing list submissions to >> [email protected] >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> [email protected] >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> [email protected] >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of OSList digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Is there experience in developing Open Space further in >> organizations and networks after the initial intervention (R Chaffe) >> 2. Re: Is there experience in developing Open Space further in >> organizations and networks after the initial intervention >> ([email protected]) >> 3. Re: Is there experience in developing Open Space further in >> organizations and networks after the initial intervention >> (Robin Muretisch, Facilitative Insights, LLC) >> 4. Re: Is there experience in developing Open Space further in >> organizations and networks after the initial intervention >> (Harrison Owen) >> 5. Re: Is there experience in developing Open Space further in >> organizations and networks after the initial intervention >> (Michael Herman) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 09:04:13 +1000 >> From: R Chaffe <[email protected]> >> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list >> <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space >> further in organizations and networks after the initial intervention >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Harrison, yes. >> >> On the other hand a client almost demanded that I increase my fee by 30%. >> My comment was we had a contract and I intended to keep to the agreed cost. >> The underlying issue was that my event had been so successful that it made >> other similar events look very expensive. Yet all that happened was that >> the process gave voice to all present. >> >> >> Rob >> >>> On 13 Aug 2018, at 12:41 am, Harrison Owen via OSList >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Rob ? you have identified one of the most curious aspects of dealing with >>> clients and/or potential clients regarding Open Space. It?s too simple. >>> Couldn?t possibly happen, and doesn?t cost enough. I had one (major) >>> corporate client who told me to double my fee otherwise, he said, he >>> couldn?t possibly get the contract through the front office. I did what he >>> asked and always felt rather guilty about it all. But he was very happy, >>> and of course the Open Space ?worked? as usual. For obvious reasons all >>> names are withheld to protect the innocent and gullible J >>> >>> ho >>> >>> From: OSList [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of R >>> Chaffe via OSList >>> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2018 10:02 PM >>> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list >>> Cc: R Chaffe >>> Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space further >>> in organizations and networks after the initial intervention >>> >>> Harrison, the process is so comfortable ie sitting in circles, speaking >>> when there is something to say, listening to others, keeping our minds open >>> to insights and differences etc. Yes we do it all the time! Therein lies >>> an issue for those looking for the ?silver? bullet from ?outside? as the >>> promise we can make is for an opportunity to explore issues and >>> opportunities associated with a particular question we have little control >>> on what might come and we have faith in the community of concern will have >>> the best ways of dealing with their concern. Sometimes it is a ?road to >>> Damascus experience and most of the time it is an insight that needs to be >>> explored. This raises another issue for those who think the one meeting >>> will be all that is required and blindly race into the future thinking that >>> change is something that others do. Opening the space is more a process >>> than an event and seeing / believing in this is one of the main stays of >>> Open Space along with the faith that withi >> n the community of concern we have the power to implement insights and >> directions gained from empowering the community to ?live?. >>> >>> Regards >>> Rob >>> >>> On 12 Aug 2018, at 5:09 am, Jan Hoglund via OSList >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for your reflections Harrison! >>> >>> Rachel Naomi Remen also speaks about 'who and what' we already are: >>> >>> "The power to repair the world is already in you." >>> "In befriending life, we do not make things happen according to our own >>> design. We uncover something that is already happening in us and around us >>> and create conditions that enable it. Everything is moving toward its place >>> of wholeness. Befriending life requires that we listen for that potential >>> which is trying to actualize itself over time. ? It is not about mastering >>> life, controlling it or exerting our will over it, no matter how well >>> intentioned our will may be. ? It means listening to life from the place in >>> us that is connected to the wholeness around us. The place in us that is >>> also whole." >>> ?Rachel Naomi Remen, My Grandfather's Blessings >>> >>> I assume this is somewhat in line with your thinking? Maybe 'blessing' a >>> space, or an organization, is a way to open it further? And it opens >>> yourself. Just a thought. >>> >>> Thanks again, >>> /Jan H?glund, Sweden >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OSList mailing list >>> To post send emails to [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >>> Past archives can be viewed here: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OSList mailing list >>> To post send emails to [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >>> Past archives can be viewed here: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20180813/3fa7ed4c/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 13:19:27 +1000 >> From: <[email protected]> >> To: "'World wide Open Space Technology email list'" >> <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space >> further in organizations and networks after the initial intervention >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Hi Harrison and Rob, >> >> I similarly put in a quote for making a multimedia video/presentation for an >> environmental engineering company. The project manager contacted me and said >> I was far and away the best qualified person for the job but my quote was >> far and away the lowest ? would I consider doubling it to avoid embarrassing >> the others... >> >> What can you say? >> >> David Smith >> >> >> >> >> >> Dr David Smith >> BSc(Hons) PhD FRSA >> Trading as imaginACTION >> >> 50 Sweyn Street >> Balwyn North >> Victoria 3104 >> AUSTRALIA >> >> t +613 9857 8688 >> m 0411 444 048 >> [email protected] >> www.imaginaction.net.au <http://www.imaginaction.net.au/> >> >> >> iA >> >> imaginACTION >> Winner 2016 Victorian Community History Award >> >> for Historical Interpretation >> >> Duldig Studio Documentaries DVD >> >> >> >> Overall Winner, >> Australian Achiever Awards >> Victorian TV, Film, Audio and Video >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: OSList [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of R >> Chaffe via OSList >> Sent: 13 August, 2018 9:04 AM >> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list >> Cc: R Chaffe >> Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space further >> in organizations and networks after the initial intervention >> >> >> >> Harrison, yes. >> >> >> >> On the other hand a client almost demanded that I increase my fee by 30%. >> My comment was we had a contract and I intended to keep to the agreed cost. >> The underlying issue was that my event had been so successful that it made >> other similar events look very expensive. Yet all that happened was that >> the process gave voice to all present. >> >> >> >> Rob >> >> >> On 13 Aug 2018, at 12:41 am, Harrison Owen via OSList >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Rob ? you have identified one of the most curious aspects of dealing with >> clients and/or potential clients regarding Open Space. It?s too simple. >> Couldn?t possibly happen, and doesn?t cost enough. I had one (major) >> corporate client who told me to double my fee otherwise, he said, he >> couldn?t possibly get the contract through the front office. I did what he >> asked and always felt rather guilty about it all. But he was very happy, and >> of course the Open Space ?worked? as usual. For obvious reasons all names >> are withheld to protect the innocent and gullible J >> >> >> >> ho >> >> >> >> From: OSList [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of R >> Chaffe via OSList >> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2018 10:02 PM >> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list >> Cc: R Chaffe >> Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space further >> in organizations and networks after the initial intervention >> >> >> >> Harrison, the process is so comfortable ie sitting in circles, speaking when >> there is something to say, listening to others, keeping our minds open to >> insights and differences etc. Yes we do it all the time! Therein lies an >> issue for those looking for the ?silver? bullet from ?outside? as the >> promise we can make is for an opportunity to explore issues and >> opportunities associated with a particular question we have little control >> on what might come and we have faith in the community of concern will have >> the best ways of dealing with their concern. Sometimes it is a ?road to >> Damascus experience and most of the time it is an insight that needs to be >> explored. This raises another issue for those who think the one meeting >> will be all that is required and blindly race into the future thinking that >> change is something that others do. Opening the space is more a process >> than an event and seeing / believing in this is one of the main stays of >> Open Space along with the faith that within >> the community of concern we have the power to implement insights and >> directions gained from empowering the community to ?live?. >> >> Regards >> >> Rob >> >> >> On 12 Aug 2018, at 5:09 am, Jan Hoglund via OSList >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Thanks for your reflections Harrison! >> >> Rachel Naomi Remen also speaks about 'who and what' we already are: >> >> "The power to repair the world is already in you." >> "In befriending life, we do not make things happen according to our own >> design. We uncover something that is already happening in us and around us >> and create conditions that enable it. Everything is moving toward its place >> of wholeness. Befriending life requires that we listen for that potential >> which is trying to actualize itself over time. ? It is not about mastering >> life, controlling it or exerting our will over it, no matter how well >> intentioned our will may be. ? It means listening to life from the place in >> us that is connected to the wholeness around us. The place in us that is >> also whole." >> ?Rachel Naomi Remen, My Grandfather's Blessings >> >> I assume this is somewhat in line with your thinking? Maybe 'blessing' a >> space, or an organization, is a way to open it further? And it opens >> yourself. Just a thought. >> >> Thanks again, >> /Jan H?glund, Sweden >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list >> To post send emails to [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >> Past archives can be viewed here: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list >> To post send emails to [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >> Past archives can be viewed here: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20180813/61233a41/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 16:14:38 +0000 >> From: "Robin Muretisch, Facilitative Insights, LLC" >> <[email protected]> >> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list >> <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space >> further in organizations and networks after the initial intervention >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Hi. I?ve recently started my own facilitation business, coming from many >> years in a corporate environment. Having a reference for going rates would >> be helpful, to ensure I?m charging clients appropriately. I?ve scoured >> OpenSpaceWorld.org (amazingly helpful site!!) but can?t find anything on >> rates. Is there a resource you could point me to (on that site or >> elsewhere) that provides going rates for Open Space Facilitation in various >> regions of the world/countries? Thanks. >> >> Robin D. H. Muretisch, CPF, MBA, CPA >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> | 770.371.5874 | >> [cid:[email protected]] >> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/robin-muretisch/> >> [facinsightslogo - FULL] >> >> >> From: OSList <[email protected]> On Behalf Of David >> Smith via OSList >> Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 11:19 PM >> To: 'World wide Open Space Technology email list' >> <[email protected]> >> Cc: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space further >> in organizations and networks after the initial intervention >> >> Hi Harrison and Rob, >> I similarly put in a quote for making a multimedia video/presentation for an >> environmental engineering company. The project manager contacted me and said >> I was far and away the best qualified person for the job but my quote was >> far and away the lowest ? would I consider doubling it to avoid embarrassing >> the others... >> What can you say? >> David Smith >> >> >> Dr David Smith >> BSc(Hons) PhD FRSA >> Trading as imaginACTION >> >> 50 Sweyn Street >> Balwyn North >> Victoria 3104 >> AUSTRALIA >> >> t +613 9857 8688 >> m 0411 444 048 >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> www.imaginaction.net.au<http://www.imaginaction.net.au/> >> >> iA >> imaginACTION >> Winner 2016 Victorian Community History Award >> for Historical Interpretation >> Duldig Studio Documentaries DVD >> >> Overall Winner, >> Australian Achiever Awards >> Victorian TV, Film, Audio and Video >> >> >> >> From: OSList [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of R >> Chaffe via OSList >> Sent: 13 August, 2018 9:04 AM >> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list >> Cc: R Chaffe >> Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space further >> in organizations and networks after the initial intervention >> >> Harrison, yes. >> >> On the other hand a client almost demanded that I increase my fee by 30%. >> My comment was we had a contract and I intended to keep to the agreed cost. >> The underlying issue was that my event had been so successful that it made >> other similar events look very expensive. Yet all that happened was that >> the process gave voice to all present. >> >> Rob >> >> On 13 Aug 2018, at 12:41 am, Harrison Owen via OSList >> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> >> wrote: >> Rob ? you have identified one of the most curious aspects of dealing with >> clients and/or potential clients regarding Open Space. It?s too simple. >> Couldn?t possibly happen, and doesn?t cost enough. I had one (major) >> corporate client who told me to double my fee otherwise, he said, he >> couldn?t possibly get the contract through the front office. I did what he >> asked and always felt rather guilty about it all. But he was very happy, and >> of course the Open Space ?worked? as usual. For obvious reasons all names >> are withheld to protect the innocent and gullible ? >> >> ho >> >> From: OSList [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of R >> Chaffe via OSList >> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2018 10:02 PM >> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list >> Cc: R Chaffe >> Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space further >> in organizations and networks after the initial intervention >> >> Harrison, the process is so comfortable ie sitting in circles, speaking when >> there is something to say, listening to others, keeping our minds open to >> insights and differences etc. Yes we do it all the time! Therein lies an >> issue for those looking for the ?silver? bullet from ?outside? as the >> promise we can make is for an opportunity to explore issues and >> opportunities associated with a particular question we have little control >> on what might come and we have faith in the community of concern will have >> the best ways of dealing with their concern. Sometimes it is a ?road to >> Damascus experience and most of the time it is an insight that needs to be >> explored. This raises another issue for those who think the one meeting >> will be all that is required and blindly race into the future thinking that >> change is something that others do. Opening the space is more a process >> than an event and seeing / believing in this is one of the main stays of >> Open Space along with the faith that within >> the community of concern we have the power to implement insights and >> directions gained from empowering the community to ?live?. >> Regards >> Rob >> >> On 12 Aug 2018, at 5:09 am, Jan Hoglund via OSList >> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> >> wrote: >> Thanks for your reflections Harrison! >> >> Rachel Naomi Remen also speaks about 'who and what' we already are: >> >> "The power to repair the world is already in you." >> "In befriending life, we do not make things happen according to our own >> design. We uncover something that is already happening in us and around us >> and create conditions that enable it. Everything is moving toward its place >> of wholeness. Befriending life requires that we listen for that potential >> which is trying to actualize itself over time. ? It is not about mastering >> life, controlling it or exerting our will over it, no matter how well >> intentioned our will may be. ? It means listening to life from the place in >> us that is connected to the wholeness around us. The place in us that is >> also whole." >> ?Rachel Naomi Remen, My Grandfather's Blessings >> >> I assume this is somewhat in line with your thinking? Maybe 'blessing' a >> space, or an organization, is a way to open it further? And it opens >> yourself. Just a thought. >> >> Thanks again, >> /Jan H?glund, Sweden >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list >> To post send emails to >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> To unsubscribe send an email to >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >> Past archives can be viewed here: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list >> To post send emails to >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> To unsubscribe send an email to >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >> Past archives can be viewed here: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20180813/6b691129/attachment-0001.html> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >> Name: image001.jpg >> Type: image/jpeg >> Size: 843 bytes >> Desc: image001.jpg >> URL: >> <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20180813/6b691129/attachment-0001.jpg> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >> Name: image003.png >> Type: image/png >> Size: 8479 bytes >> Desc: image003.png >> URL: >> <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20180813/6b691129/attachment-0001.png> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 12:59:35 -0400 >> From: "Harrison Owen" <[email protected]> >> To: "'World wide Open Space Technology email list'" >> <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space >> further in organizations and networks after the initial intervention >> Message-ID: <000501d43327$044e79e0$0ceb6da0$@com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Lots of luck! I can only talk about my rates which run from $0 to >> embarrassing. Or doubling embarrassing if I am forced to look like a ?real >> consultant.? Short take? There is no such thing as a ?standard rate? >> anywhere on the globe that I am aware of. So what do you do? My approach was >> always to ask two questions. 1) What did the client hope to achieve? And 2) >> How much would that be worth, if it happened? Depending on the answers and >> the client, we eventually came up with some appropriate rate. Which, as I >> said, ran from $0 to $Embarrassing (to me). >> >> >> >> Good Luck! >> >> >> >> ho >> >> >> >> From: OSList [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> Robin Muretisch, Facilitative Insights, LLC via OSList >> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2018 12:15 PM >> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list >> Cc: Robin Muretisch, Facilitative Insights, LLC >> Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space further >> in organizations and networks after the initial intervention >> >> >> >> Hi. I?ve recently started my own facilitation business, coming from many >> years in a corporate environment. Having a reference for going rates would >> be helpful, to ensure I?m charging clients appropriately. I?ve scoured >> OpenSpaceWorld.org (amazingly helpful site!!) but can?t find anything on >> rates. Is there a resource you could point me to (on that site or >> elsewhere) that provides going rates for Open Space Facilitation in various >> regions of the world/countries? Thanks. >> >> >> >> Robin D. H. Muretisch, CPF, MBA, CPA >> >> <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] | 770.371.5874 | >> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/robin-muretisch/> >> cid:[email protected] >> >> facinsightslogo - FULL >> >> >> >> >> >> From: OSList <[email protected]> On Behalf Of David >> Smith via OSList >> Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 11:19 PM >> To: 'World wide Open Space Technology email list' >> <[email protected]> >> Cc: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space further >> in organizations and networks after the initial intervention >> >> >> >> Hi Harrison and Rob, >> >> I similarly put in a quote for making a multimedia video/presentation for an >> environmental engineering company. The project manager contacted me and said >> I was far and away the best qualified person for the job but my quote was >> far and away the lowest ? would I consider doubling it to avoid embarrassing >> the others... >> >> What can you say? >> >> David Smith >> >> >> >> >> >> Dr David Smith >> BSc(Hons) PhD FRSA >> Trading as imaginACTION >> >> 50 Sweyn Street >> Balwyn North >> Victoria 3104 >> AUSTRALIA >> >> t +613 9857 8688 >> m 0411 444 048 >> [email protected] >> www.imaginaction.net.au <http://www.imaginaction.net.au/> >> >> >> iA >> >> imaginACTION >> Winner 2016 Victorian Community History Award >> >> for Historical Interpretation >> >> Duldig Studio Documentaries DVD >> >> >> >> Overall Winner, >> Australian Achiever Awards >> Victorian TV, Film, Audio and Video >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: OSList [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of R >> Chaffe via OSList >> Sent: 13 August, 2018 9:04 AM >> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list >> Cc: R Chaffe >> Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space further >> in organizations and networks after the initial intervention >> >> >> >> Harrison, yes. >> >> >> >> On the other hand a client almost demanded that I increase my fee by 30%. >> My comment was we had a contract and I intended to keep to the agreed cost. >> The underlying issue was that my event had been so successful that it made >> other similar events look very expensive. Yet all that happened was that >> the process gave voice to all present. >> >> >> >> Rob >> >> >> On 13 Aug 2018, at 12:41 am, Harrison Owen via OSList >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Rob ? you have identified one of the most curious aspects of dealing with >> clients and/or potential clients regarding Open Space. It?s too simple. >> Couldn?t possibly happen, and doesn?t cost enough. I had one (major) >> corporate client who told me to double my fee otherwise, he said, he >> couldn?t possibly get the contract through the front office. I did what he >> asked and always felt rather guilty about it all. But he was very happy, and >> of course the Open Space ?worked? as usual. For obvious reasons all names >> are withheld to protect the innocent and gullible J >> >> >> >> ho >> >> >> >> From: OSList [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of R >> Chaffe via OSList >> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2018 10:02 PM >> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list >> Cc: R Chaffe >> Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space further >> in organizations and networks after the initial intervention >> >> >> >> Harrison, the process is so comfortable ie sitting in circles, speaking when >> there is something to say, listening to others, keeping our minds open to >> insights and differences etc. Yes we do it all the time! Therein lies an >> issue for those looking for the ?silver? bullet from ?outside? as the >> promise we can make is for an opportunity to explore issues and >> opportunities associated with a particular question we have little control >> on what might come and we have faith in the community of concern will have >> the best ways of dealing with their concern. Sometimes it is a ?road to >> Damascus experience and most of the time it is an insight that needs to be >> explored. This raises another issue for those who think the one meeting >> will be all that is required and blindly race into the future thinking that >> change is something that others do. Opening the space is more a process >> than an event and seeing / believing in this is one of the main stays of >> Open Space along with the faith that within >> the community of concern we have the power to implement insights and >> directions gained from empowering the community to ?live?. >> >> Regards >> >> Rob >> >> >> On 12 Aug 2018, at 5:09 am, Jan Hoglund via OSList >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Thanks for your reflections Harrison! >> >> Rachel Naomi Remen also speaks about 'who and what' we already are: >> >> "The power to repair the world is already in you." >> "In befriending life, we do not make things happen according to our own >> design. We uncover something that is already happening in us and around us >> and create conditions that enable it. Everything is moving toward its place >> of wholeness. Befriending life requires that we listen for that potential >> which is trying to actualize itself over time. ? It is not about mastering >> life, controlling it or exerting our will over it, no matter how well >> intentioned our will may be. ? It means listening to life from the place in >> us that is connected to the wholeness around us. The place in us that is >> also whole." >> ?Rachel Naomi Remen, My Grandfather's Blessings >> >> I assume this is somewhat in line with your thinking? Maybe 'blessing' a >> space, or an organization, is a way to open it further? And it opens >> yourself. Just a thought. >> >> Thanks again, >> /Jan H?glund, Sweden >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list >> To post send emails to [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >> Past archives can be viewed here: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list >> To post send emails to [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >> Past archives can be viewed here: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20180813/97fcd969/attachment-0001.html> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >> Name: image001.jpg >> Type: image/jpeg >> Size: 843 bytes >> Desc: not available >> URL: >> <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20180813/97fcd969/attachment-0001.jpg> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >> Name: image002.png >> Type: image/png >> Size: 8479 bytes >> Desc: not available >> URL: >> <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20180813/97fcd969/attachment-0001.png> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 11:48:31 -0600 >> From: Michael Herman <[email protected]> >> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list >> <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space >> further in organizations and networks after the initial intervention >> Message-ID: >> <CAD8j=QG4CQLEQy9wvxhTgf6jOzUs=wsnchdxyxd00rhbqr7...@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> In my experience, Robin, every situation is different. If there was such a >> table, I suspect it would have MANY rates. Kind of like asking, "What is >> the going rate for an artist?" Depends greatly on the artist, the asker, >> and many things about the situation and duration of the work/impact >> desired. Sometimes there is already a budget, so quoting prices doesn't >> matter and it's more a question of what can be done within that limit. >> Other times, there is an emphasis on the quality of the work such that any >> price is okay as long as everything goes well. Sometimes it surprises >> clients that there should be preparation time, it's not just a technical >> task we show up for the day of the meeting/event. >> >> If there's any rule at all for me, it might be that the conversation needs >> to focus first on what's happening, what's desired and expected, what's >> already decided and where there might be uncertainty or complete unknowns. >> All of these things in terms of the context, the leadership/sponsorhip, the >> invitation, invitation list, logistics, documentation or otherwise keeping >> things going, AND in terms of budget, previous experience with OS or other >> facilitators. The tricky part, in my experience, is that the most >> important work often happens in the earliest conversations, before anyone >> agrees to pay anything. So it's a bit of line to walk, helping them >> see/understand the value but not spending too much time/energy before >> there's a commitment. And that line is different with every potential and >> situation. >> >> I once had a first meeting with a leader and her board chair. They decided >> against doing the "event" we'd discussed, but she said she wanted to pay me >> something, anyway. Turns out we'd opened enough space in our first >> conversation that she'd gotten to raise the issues that mattered most and >> gotten important "action" on them. So we agreed on a fee and I sent her an >> invoice. What I take from this and some of the previous stories in this >> thread is that we need to be quoting for their value not our time. I >> estimate days, but I share more and less of that calculation as needed in >> any situation. I try to keep the focus on what we need to do, toward >> achieving what large and important purpose, with no guarantees or promises >> to control the group, for what total fee. And sometimes the "daily rate" >> is quite high. Then, having agreed to that fee, I spend whatever time I >> find is needed. So any quoted rate may or may not end up being the actual >> rate earned. With experience and with the learning we do in the first >> conversation(s), focused on the work not the fee, we can do pretty well >> with the estimating. >> >> Speaking of invoices, I guess the one other "rule" I have is that once we >> have that initial conversation and agree on some scope of engagement and >> fee amount, with almost every client, that fee is billed in two parts. The >> first half is billed and payable immediately, the second half plus expenses >> is billed upon completion. Sometimes the plane ticket gets rolled into the >> first invoice. This accomplishes a lot of useful things. One of which is >> that it de-emphasizes contracting that often has a legalistic, us-them, >> and/or guarantees flavor to it and emphasizes, instead, real action. When >> they say, "Book a ticket and send the first invoice," we all know it's >> really game on, going to happen. Another is that in the most complex, >> energy-intensive situations, which tend to be the higher fees, when I show >> up, only half my pay feels "at risk." It feels like my client and I go >> into the unknown of the opening circle with more balance in the risk and >> relationship. >> >> Geoff Bellman, in his book, "The Consultant's Calling," has a little bit on >> this topic. The line I remember best and use from time to time is, "I'd >> like to make/earn/bill $____ for this work." It's not about imposing a fee >> structure. It's maybe not up to the consultant at all. But there is also >> sense of "This is what I think this is worth" and "This is what I'd feel >> good about trading for the energy I think this is going to take." Implicit >> in the latter is some expectation of the energy that'll be required. And >> if that quoted price is outside of what's expected, there are several lines >> to pursue in the conversation that follows. Often, I propose a range, as >> well, which gives me some wiggle room, because we never really know what >> we're walking into. It's nice to make a little extra when the going gets >> rough in preparations or the work proves especially valuable and it's nice >> to leave a little on the table when things go easy or maybe unsettling >> things turn up at the end. >> >> So maybe there are at least two questions inside of your question, Robin... >> How much do you think clients will pay for our work (how/how much do they >> value our work)? AND how much do you like to get paid for doing this kind >> of work? And then, for what sorts of clients, issues, purposes, places, >> etc. And then, what do we do when the two numbers are different? Or when >> your value and mine are perceived as equal by a client out facilitator >> shopping, but each us wants to get paid something different? >> >> Michael >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Michael Herman >> Michael Herman Associates >> 312-280-7838 (mobile) >> >> http://MichaelHerman.com >> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org >> >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 10:14 AM, Robin Muretisch, Facilitative Insights, >> LLC via OSList <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi. I?ve recently started my own facilitation business, coming from many >>> years in a corporate environment. Having a reference for going rates would >>> be helpful, to ensure I?m charging clients appropriately. I?ve scoured >>> OpenSpaceWorld.org (amazingly helpful site!!) but can?t find anything on >>> rates. Is there a resource you could point me to (on that site or >>> elsewhere) that provides going rates for Open Space Facilitation in various >>> regions of the world/countries? Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> Robin D. H. Muretisch, CPF, MBA, CPA >>> >>> [email protected] | 770.371.5874 | [image: >>> cid:[email protected]] >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/robin-muretisch/> >>> >>> [image: facinsightslogo - FULL] >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* OSList <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *David >>> Smith via OSList >>> *Sent:* Sunday, August 12, 2018 11:19 PM >>> *To:* 'World wide Open Space Technology email list' < >>> [email protected]> >>> *Cc:* [email protected] >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space >>> further in organizations and networks after the initial intervention >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Harrison and Rob, >>> >>> I similarly put in a quote for making a multimedia video/presentation for >>> an environmental engineering company. The project manager contacted me and >>> said I was far and away the best qualified person for the job but my quote >>> was far and away the lowest ? would I consider doubling it to avoid >>> embarrassing the others... >>> >>> What can you say? >>> >>> David Smith >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dr David Smith >>> BSc(Hons) PhD FRSA >>> Trading as imaginACTION >>> >>> 50 Sweyn Street >>> Balwyn North >>> Victoria 3104 >>> AUSTRALIA >>> >>> t +613 9857 8688 >>> m 0411 444 048 >>> [email protected] >>> www.imaginaction.net.au >>> >>> >>> iA >>> >>> imaginACTION >>> Winner 2016 Victorian Community History Award >>> >>> for Historical Interpretation >>> >>> *Duldig Studio Documentaries DVD* >>> >>> >>> >>> Overall Winner, >>> Australian Achiever Awards >>> * Victorian TV, Film, Audio and Video* >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* OSList [mailto:[email protected] >>> <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *R Chaffe via >>> OSList >>> *Sent:* 13 August, 2018 9:04 AM >>> *To:* World wide Open Space Technology email list >>> *Cc:* R Chaffe >>> *Subject:* Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space >>> further in organizations and networks after the initial intervention >>> >>> >>> >>> Harrison, yes. >>> >>> >>> >>> On the other hand a client almost demanded that I increase my fee by 30%. >>> My comment was we had a contract and I intended to keep to the agreed >>> cost. The underlying issue was that my event had been so successful that >>> it made other similar events look very expensive. Yet all that happened >>> was that the process gave voice to all present. >>> >>> >>> >>> Rob >>> >>> >>> On 13 Aug 2018, at 12:41 am, Harrison Owen via OSList < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Rob ? you have identified one of the most curious aspects of dealing with >>> clients and/or potential clients regarding Open Space. It?s too simple. >>> Couldn?t possibly happen, and doesn?t cost enough. I had one (major) >>> corporate client who told me to double my fee otherwise, he said, he >>> couldn?t possibly get the contract through the front office. I did what he >>> asked and always felt rather guilty about it all. But he was very happy, >>> and of course the Open Space ?worked? as usual. For obvious reasons all >>> names are withheld to protect the innocent and gullible J >>> >>> >>> >>> ho >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* OSList [mailto:[email protected] >>> <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *R Chaffe via >>> OSList >>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 11, 2018 10:02 PM >>> *To:* World wide Open Space Technology email list >>> *Cc:* R Chaffe >>> *Subject:* Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space >>> further in organizations and networks after the initial intervention >>> >>> >>> >>> Harrison, the process is so comfortable ie sitting in circles, speaking >>> when there is something to say, listening to others, keeping our minds open >>> to insights and differences etc. Yes we do it all the time! Therein lies >>> an issue for those looking for the ?silver? bullet from ?outside? as the >>> promise we can make is for an opportunity to explore issues and >>> opportunities associated with a particular question we have little control >>> on what might come and we have faith in the community of concern will have >>> the best ways of dealing with their concern. Sometimes it is a ?road to >>> Damascus experience and most of the time it is an insight that needs to be >>> explored. This raises another issue for those who think the one meeting >>> will be all that is required and blindly race into the future thinking that >>> change is something that others do. Opening the space is more a process >>> than an event and seeing / believing in this is one of the main stays of >>> Open Space along with the faith that within the community of concern we >>> have the power to implement insights and directions gained from empowering >>> the community to ?live?. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Rob >>> >>> >>> On 12 Aug 2018, at 5:09 am, Jan Hoglund via OSList < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for your reflections Harrison! >>> >>> Rachel Naomi Remen also speaks about 'who and what' we already are: >>> >>> "The power to repair the world is already in you." >>> "In befriending life, we do not make things happen according to our own >>> design. We uncover something that is already happening in us and around us >>> and create conditions that enable it. Everything is moving toward its place >>> of wholeness. Befriending life requires that we listen for that potential >>> which is trying to actualize itself over time. ? It is not about mastering >>> life, controlling it or exerting our will over it, no matter how well >>> intentioned our will may be. ? It means listening to life from the place in >>> us that is connected to the wholeness around us. The place in us that is >>> also whole." >>> ?Rachel Naomi Remen, My Grandfather's Blessings >>> >>> I assume this is somewhat in line with your thinking? Maybe 'blessing' a >>> space, or an organization, is a way to open it further? And it opens >>> yourself. Just a thought. >>> >>> Thanks again, >>> /Jan H?glund, Sweden >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OSList mailing list >>> To post send emails to [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >>> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/ >>> [email protected] >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OSList mailing list >>> To post send emails to [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >>> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/ >>> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OSList mailing list >>> To post send emails to [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >>> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/ >>> [email protected] >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20180813/15528b1c/attachment-0001.html> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >> Name: image001.jpg >> Type: image/jpeg >> Size: 843 bytes >> Desc: not available >> URL: >> <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20180813/15528b1c/attachment-0001.jpg> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >> Name: image003.png >> Type: image/png >> Size: 8479 bytes >> Desc: not available >> URL: >> <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20180813/15528b1c/attachment-0001.png> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list >> To post send emails to [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >> Past archives can be viewed here: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of OSList Digest, Vol 88, Issue 7 >> ************************************* > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] _______________________________________________ OSList mailing list To post send emails to [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]
