On Dec 12, 2008, at 9:08 AM, Chris Gehlker wrote: > > On Dec 12, 2008, at 6:05 AM, Stefano Mori wrote: > >> >> On 2008-Dec-12, at 12:49, Chris Gehlker wrote: >> >>>> it was wrong for the US to destabilize Iraq, obviously ... >>>> >>>> but we can't blame Americans for Iraqi acts of violence, or can we? >>> >>> The notion that a conqueror is responsible for the welfare of the >>> conquered people or at least the innocent among them is certainly >>> embodied in international law and tradition. No one questioned it >>> after WWII and it forms the basis of the theory of a trust >>> relationship between the US and the Indian nations. Colin Powell >>> expressed it as the 'Pottery Barn Rule' >>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pottery_Barn_rule> >> >> >> That's interesting :-) >> >> Still, old Saddam might have just choked on a date one day and >> dropped >> dead. Then who'd be to blame? (for the ensuing tribal warfare?) > > Isn't that essentially what happened in Yugoslavia when Josip Tito > died? Didn't the whole Western world feel some responsibility to stop > the violence and genocide?
Not really. Josip Broz Titio died in May 1980, fully a decade before the 'govno' hit the fan in the Balkans. It took years for Slobodan Milošević of Serbia, Franjo Tudjman of Croatiato stir up latent nationalism to the point where it turned into warfare. It didn't have to happen that way. Once the dissolution of Yugoslavia occurred in '91 it was obvious to anyone familiar with the region what could, and eventually did happen. The tragedy is that it took so long for NATO and the UN to do anything beyond hand wringing. >> I'd say whomever was most able would have been duty bound to step in >> and do something. The fact that your previous government started this >> is by the way. The job of fixing it should go to whomever is most >> able >> and capable of doing so, if they can do so without hurting themselves >> more than the Iraqi people are hurting themselves. > > That's where I suspect Ware may be too pessimistic despite his track > record. It seems to me that Iran has already demonstrated that they > can put a lid on the violence when they want. And I agree that Iran > has an obligation to prevent violence when they can. Maybe Ware thinks > that Iran can impose peace between competing Shia groups but can't > prevent Sunni/Shia conflict. I wish the article had been clearer. >> >> >> If America doesn't know how to fix it, and staying will mean that in >> 30 years Iraq will still be in this stalemate, then please leave now >> and let the Iraqis sort it out themselves by whatever it takes. > > Interestingly, Hobbes made this argument. Neglecting duty to protect > the conquered could be excused by incompetence. >> >> >> At some point they'll have to realise that blowing things up is not >> going to hold back the modern world from their gates. > > Are you referring to the Iraqis or the Americans? If the shoe fits... -- Milo Velimirović La Crosse, Wisconsin 54601 USA 43 48 48 N 91 13 53 W "Be humble, for the worst thing in the world is of the same stuff as you; be confident, for the stars are of the same stuff as you." -- _______________________________________________ OSX-Nutters mailing list | [email protected] http://lists.tit-wank.com/mailman/listinfo/osx-nutters List hosted at http://cat5.org/
