Joan, and others: Thanks for all the responses so far, and for indulging me. Yes, Joan, part of the reason for the questions was to "kick off" a round of discussion, and for me to jump in and start talking. I am loving all the feedback and ensuing discussion. I served as the district membership chairperson for the north Texas area a few years back. Obviously, one of the primary responsibilities of that position was to increase and maintain state assn. membership. I came up with all kinds of hoop-jumping tactics, but at the end of the day realized that those who want to give money and join did so, and those who did not (for whatever reasons) didn't. I heard all kinds of reasons for not joining, and at the outset would agree with some of them including the cost/benefit not being equitable, too much bureaucracy/politics and not enough visible action, not enough time to allocate for meetings or activities outside of work hours, etc. All these reasons notwithstanding (and as I've said I've been there, done that), the choice to give money and join is one which has more chance of yielding positive outcome than not. Period. I too have been disgusted with the seeming lack of progress our profession has made in the past few decades, but to not participate is not an option for me anymore. I hope that many, many other practitioners of this craft come to the same conclusion before it's "too late". I think it's "too late" when the APTA finally succeeds in securing its place as the "preferred provider" in the medical model of practice, and possibly all areas of practice. It's refreshing to engage in dialogue and debate once again. I'm looking forward to more spirited and stimulating visits to this list.
Bill Maloney, OTR --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Send OTlist mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > http://otnow.com/mailman/listinfo/otlist_otnow.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it > is more specific > than "Re: Contents of OTlist digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: questions (Joe Wells) > 2. Re: questions (Dr. Estelle Breines) > 3. Re: questions (Jeanie Fountain) > 4. Re: questions (Carmen Aguirre) > 5. Re: questions (answers rom Canada - Hi > Susanne) (Joan Riches) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 09:27:00 -0400 > From: "Joe Wells" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [OTlist] questions > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > AOTA- Yes > State: Yes > NBCOT- Yes > > Many of the OTs/ OTAs, I know use the NBCOT > affliation but do not have the > AOTA/ State membership and most state that the > "price is high" for a reason. > Ron stated " Isn't our membership considered > participation"? Now > "participation" is an interesting word to the > profession, isn't it? Can we > analyze it to the context of AOTA membership. Or, > else can we say that 95% > of members of the "OTlist" that never post are truly > participating as well. > Ron et al., I understand the frustration that we as > a profession share. The > over statements by AOTA is just positive marketing > that is so required while > we work toward making a better future. We must > believe in our selves first > to be able to achieve. We fund what AOTA does. With > less than 35% of > practicing OTs/ OTAs as members, how can we expect > it to compete/ defend > against APTA, NATA or the likes. I am no AOTA > office-bearer and have my fair > share of complaints as well, but then I realize my > complaints may be a > non-issue or of misplaced value to others. And, in > democracy if the majority > feels one way, we can indeed do something about it. > Choose your battle, > select your general, gather your logistics, declare > war and.....fight! If > you lose, at least you lose trying. > > Joe Wells, OTR/L > www.americare-health.com > www.f-cot.org > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Carson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Jeanie Fountain" <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 10:01 PM > Subject: Re: [OTlist] questions > > > > Hello Jeanie: > > > > Thanks for writing... > > > > Isn't our membership considered participation? > > > > Also, serving in a either a State or National > organization is not for > > everyone. But, that does not mean that those of > us not serving should > > not voice our opinions, both positive and > negative. And, I think > > national and state organizations are cutting > off their faces to spite > > their noses. > > > > For example, awhile back, I went through a > ruckus because my state OT > > association did not like my suggestion that > its list serve should be > > made available to non-members. At the time, I > was not a member of the > > organization and I took a lot of heat one, for > not being a member and > > two, for suggesting that non-members should > have access to the list > > serve. And even though I am a current member > of my state OT assoc, I > > still think they should make their list serve > public. Heck, AOTA is the > > same way. If you aren't a member, then you > can't access their list > > serves. > > > > It's a good thing that I don't charge people for > access to OTnow. Heck, > > I can't even get a single dollar donated to > help pay for this site!!! > > Wait a minute... reading what I just typed, sort > of feels like the pot > > calling the kettle black. I'm complaining about > AOTA wanting money for > > access while at the same time complaining about > not getting donations > > for OTnow, hum?? But you know what, if I did > charge for access to this > > list and other resources on my site but there were > people who thought it > > wasn't worth it, then I wouldn't want them to pay. > Of course, I wouldn't > > offer it too them for free but I wouldn't > look down on them for not > > joining. I guess that's sort of how I feel about > the whole AOTA thing. > > IF people feel that there money is well spent, > they might more eagerly > > give to AOTA. I for one, question the initiatives > of AOTA, so I question > > giving them more money. > > > > I was once involved in South Carolina's state > association. Every meeting > > I attended was worse than going to the > dentist. Nothing hardly got > > accomplished because of all the rules and > crap. I hate bureaucracy, > > maybe because I served in the U.S. Navy for 11 > years. Rules, rules and > > more rules and nothing gets done! > > > > Jeanie, I am going to ask a straight forward > question. What do you see > > that is amazing about the profession of OT? > I am not talking about > > individual practitioners, but what is amazing > about our profession? > > > > Again, thanks for writing. Please don't take > anything I said as a > > personal attack. I am just in a writing mood, > which sometimes happens > > when the OT list is quiet for long periods. > > > > -- > > Ron Carson MHS, OTR/L > > HOPE Therapy Services > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Jeanie Fountain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 > > To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > > Subj: [OTlist] questions > > > > JF> I am a member for AOTA, NBCOT and my state > association. > > > > JF> For those that aren't members or are and have > complaints...have you > > JF> considered taking a position within or at > least participated in these > > JF> associations? If you have an opinion, I would > suggest > > participation...I > > JF> don't think that we would continue to have a > profession without the > > works of > > JF> these associations. > > > > JF> Or maybe we should just let APTA take over our > profession too??? > > > > JF> It is very sad that so many of our colleagues > refuse to support our > > JF> profession (IN ANY WAY)...but continue to reap > the benefits of an > > amazing > > JF> profession. > > > > JF> Jeanie Fountain, OTR/L, COF > > JF> Area Manager, Quad Cities > > JF> MILLENNIUM THERAPY SERVICES > > JF> 401 Trilein, Suite 4; P.O. Box 367 > > JF> Ankeny, Iowa 50021 > > JF> cell: 563.543.4525 > > JF> fax: 563.514.0667 > > > > JF> "When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but > with the humble is > > wisdom." > > JF> Proverbs 11:2 > > > > > > > > JF> -----Original Message----- > > JF> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > JF> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > > JF> Of Bill Maloney > > JF> Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 4:03 PM > > JF> To: [email protected] > > JF> Subject: [OTlist] questions > > > > JF> This is my first posting to this list. I am > curious > > JF> about a few things, so please feel free to > respond: > > > > JF> How many of you reading this are currently > members of > > JF> AOTA? Your state OT association? Use > designation of > > JF> OTR, indicating that you are current with the > NBCOT? > > JF> How many of your colleagues (same questions as > above > > JF> if you know)? > > > > JF> Thanks, > > JF> Bill Maloney, OTR > > > > JF> -- > > JF> Unsubscribe? > > JF> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > JF> Change options? > > JF> > www.otnow.com/mailman/options/otlist_otnow.com > > > > JF> Archive? > > JF> www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > JF> Help? > > JF> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Unsubscribe? > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Change options? > > www.otnow.com/mailman/options/otlist_otnow.com > > > > Archive? > > www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > Help? > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 09:36:28 -0400 > From: "Dr. Estelle Breines" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [OTlist] questions > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Bravo Jeannie. > > There is no point in complaining about the workings > of an organization > unless one joins the organization and works to > effect change. I belong > to AOTA and NJOTA, where I serve as President. I > work very hard to > attract members of each, and encourage people to > participate. Estelle > > Estelle B. Breines, PhD, OTR, FAOTA > 15 Hibbler Road > Lebanon, NJ 08833 > 908 735-8918 > 908 730-8919 FAX > 908 797-6301 Cell > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Jeanie Fountain > Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 9:15 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [OTlist] questions > > I am a member for AOTA, NBCOT and my state > association. > > For those that aren't members or are and have > complaints...have you > considered taking a position within or at least > participated in these > associations? If you have an opinion, I would > suggest participation...I > don't think that we would continue to have a > profession without the > works of > these associations. > > Or maybe we should just let APTA take over our > profession too??? > > It is very sad that so many of our colleagues refuse > to support our > profession (IN ANY WAY)...but continue to reap the > benefits of an > amazing > profession. > > Jeanie Fountain, OTR/L, COF > Area Manager, Quad Cities > MILLENNIUM THERAPY SERVICES > 401 Trilein, Suite 4; P.O. Box 367 > Ankeny, Iowa 50021 > cell: 563.543.4525 > fax: 563.514.0667 > > "When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with the > humble is wisdom." > Proverbs 11:2 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf > Of Bill Maloney > Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 4:03 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [OTlist] questions > > This is my first posting to this list. I am curious > about a few things, so please feel free to respond: > > How many of you reading this are currently members > of > AOTA? Your state OT association? Use designation of > OTR, indicating that you are current with the NBCOT? > > How many of your colleagues (same questions as above > if you know)? > > Thanks, > Bill Maloney, OTR > > -- > Unsubscribe? > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Change options? > www.otnow.com/mailman/options/otlist_otnow.com > > Archive? > www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > Help? > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > -- > Unsubscribe? > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Change options? > www.otnow.com/mailman/options/otlist_otnow.com > > Archive? > www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > Help? > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 09:41:36 -0500 > From: "Jeanie Fountain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [OTlist] questions > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi Ron, > I am taking no offense at all...this is part of what > a list serve is... > > In regards to membership (I was referring to those > that are NOT members, in > general). Most practitioners that I work with are > NOT members of ANYTHING. > > You are right, serving on a national or state > association is not for > everyone...I DO wish that AOTA and state > associations WOULD allow > non-members to participate on their list-serves. > That would allow for > better communication as to why our membership > numbers are down. > > Thank you for NOT charging for this list-serve. > (heehee) > > What initiatives (specifically) are you referencing > (re: AOTA)? > > Of course, no one likes bureaucracy but it IS > EVERYWHERE...in our work, in > the kids' schools, in our churches, heck...it's in > our homes! But, that is > the state of life and we just have to deal with it > (hopefully, with a bit of > good communication and heartfelt concern). That may > sound simplified...but > what do we do? ...not live in the world today? > > What is amazing about our profession? Well, I have > only been an OT for 14 > years. I have been able to work in schools, home > health, hospital-based > rehab, SNF (for the most part), free-standing > outpatient...what a BLESSING > to have options. We are not bound to psych. as our > profession started out > (not that it's a bad thing, I enjoy this area of > practice too.) The > patients that I have met and the experiences WAY out > weigh the bureaucracy. > > > I have 4 children. I have been free to work full > time or part time when the > need arose. I have worked part time for one company > and PRN for others to > increase the income and gain flexibility. I have > owned my own business and > independently contracted myself to multiple > companies... > > What profession allows for so much diversity, > freedom and opportunity? I > feel so blessed in the opportunities that are > available to me. As a matter > of fact, my husband thinks it's RIDICULOUS what > opportunities there are ALL > OVER for my profession (dare I say, "He's > jealous"?). What other job could > you pick up and leave without a job and practically > have no concerns b/c you > KNOW that there are jobs waiting for you when you > get there? > > The other amazing parts of this profession, possibly > the best, are the > patients that I have been impacted by (and most > likely all that would read > this). I have sooo many vivid memories of patients > that I have been able to > treat (in Salt Lake City, UT; Sarasota, FL; Kansas > City, MO/KS; Davenport, > IA; Chicago, IL...). APTA would love for us to have > NO practice area > delineated for us alone. You know that, right? I > know that I am not > involved in AOTA, as I would like to be. But it > sure feels nice to know > that someone out there IS looking out for my job and > practice on Capitol > Hill (since I have no time to). > > Sorry for being windy. > > Jeanie Fountain, OTR/L, COF > Area Manager, Quad Cities > MILLENNIUM THERAPY SERVICES > 401 Trilein, Suite 4; P.O. Box 367 > Ankeny, Iowa 50021 > cell: 563.543.4525 > fax: 563.514.0667 > > "When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with the > humble is wisdom." > Proverbs 11:2 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Ron Carson > Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 9:01 PM > To: Jeanie Fountain > Subject: Re: [OTlist] questions > > Hello Jeanie: > > Thanks for writing... > > Isn't our membership considered participation? > > Also, serving in a either a State or National > organization is not for > everyone. But, that does not mean that those of > us not serving should > not voice our opinions, both positive and > negative. And, I think > national and state organizations are cutting off > their faces to spite > their noses. > > For example, awhile back, I went through a ruckus > because my state OT > association did not like my suggestion that its > list serve should be > made available to non-members. At the time, I was > not a member of the > organization and I took a lot of heat one, for > not being a member and > two, for suggesting that non-members should > have access to the list > serve. And even though I am a current member of > my state OT assoc, I > still think they should make their list serve > public. Heck, AOTA is the > same way. If you aren't a member, then you > can't access their list > serves. > > It's a good thing that I don't charge people for > access to OTnow. Heck, > I can't even get a single dollar donated to help > pay for this site!!! > Wait a minute... reading what I just typed, sort > of feels like the pot > calling the kettle black. I'm complaining about > AOTA wanting money for > access while at the same time complaining about > not getting donations > for OTnow, hum?? But you know what, if I did > charge for access to this > list and other resources on my site but there were > people who thought it > wasn't worth it, then I wouldn't want them to pay. > Of course, I wouldn't > offer it too them for free but I wouldn't look > down on them for not > joining. I guess that's sort of how I feel about > the whole AOTA thing. > IF people feel that there money is well spent, > they might more eagerly > give to AOTA. I for one, question the initiatives of > AOTA, so I question > giving them more money. > > I was once involved in South Carolina's state > association. Every meeting > I attended was worse than going to the > dentist. Nothing hardly got > accomplished because of all the rules and crap. > I hate bureaucracy, > maybe because I served in the U.S. Navy for 11 > years. Rules, rules and > more rules and nothing gets done! > > Jeanie, I am going to ask a straight forward > question. What do you see > that is amazing about the profession of OT? I > am not talking about > individual practitioners, but what is amazing about > our profession? > > Again, thanks for writing. Please don't take > anything I said as a > personal attack. I am just in a writing mood, > which sometimes happens > when the OT list is quiet for long periods. > > -- > Ron Carson MHS, OTR/L > HOPE Therapy Services > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeanie Fountain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 > To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > Subj: [OTlist] questions > > JF> I am a member for AOTA, NBCOT and my state > association. > > JF> For those that aren't members or are and have > complaints...have you > JF> considered taking a position within or at least > participated in these > JF> associations? If you have an opinion, I would > suggest participation...I > JF> don't think that we would continue to have a > profession without the > works of > JF> these associations. > > JF> Or maybe we should just let APTA take over our > profession too??? > > JF> It is very sad that so many of our colleagues > refuse to support our > JF> profession (IN ANY WAY)...but continue to reap > the benefits of an > amazing > JF> profession. > > JF> Jeanie Fountain, OTR/L, COF > JF> Area Manager, Quad Cities > JF> MILLENNIUM THERAPY SERVICES > JF> 401 Trilein, Suite 4; P.O. Box 367 > JF> Ankeny, Iowa 50021 > JF> cell: 563.543.4525 > JF> fax: 563.514.0667 > > JF> "When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with > the humble is wisdom." > JF> Proverbs 11:2 > > > > JF> -----Original Message----- > JF> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > JF> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > JF> Of Bill Maloney > JF> Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 4:03 PM > JF> To: [email protected] > JF> Subject: [OTlist] questions > > JF> This is my first posting to this list. I am > curious > JF> about a few things, so please feel free to > respond: > > JF> How many of you reading this are currently > members of > JF> AOTA? Your state OT association? Use > designation of > JF> OTR, indicating that you are current with the > NBCOT? > JF> How many of your colleagues (same questions as > above > JF> if you know)? > > JF> Thanks, > JF> Bill Maloney, OTR > > JF> -- > JF> Unsubscribe? > JF> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > JF> Change options? > JF> www.otnow.com/mailman/options/otlist_otnow.com > > > JF> Archive? > JF> www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > JF> Help? > JF> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > -- > Unsubscribe? > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Change options? > www.otnow.com/mailman/options/otlist_otnow.com > > Archive? > www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > Help? > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 20:50:33 -0600 > From: "Carmen Aguirre" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [OTlist] questions > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > AOTA yes > NBCOT; YES > State Associat: YES > worth every penny, every effort and every > frustrating moment. Why? It has given me the > opportunity to complaint, become part of the > "solution-seeking" group and generate more > satisfactory strategies for my own daily > intervention. I co-founded a study group with a few > other practitioners were we come up with ideas for > occupationally-based intervention and cognitive > disabilities/ assessment and treatment ideas. Gets > my brain going, allows me to access, network and > learn research-evidence based stuff that I would not > have unless, I looked for these avenues to increase > my satisfaction and pride as an OTR. > carmen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 9:28 AM > Subject: Re: [OTlist] questions > > > Response: AOTA YES > STATE YES > NBCOT YES > > > WHY WOULDN"T YOU???? > -- > Unsubscribe? > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Change options? > > www.otnow.com/mailman/options/otlist_otnow.com<http://www.otnow.com/mailman/options/otlist_otnow.com> > > > Archive? > > www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]<http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]> > > Help? > [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 08:08:29 -0600 > From: "Joan Riches" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [OTlist] questions (answers rom Canada > - Hi Susanne) > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" > > Hi Bill > Welcome to the list. I have been following the > discussion with interest. I > am very curious about what prompted your questions > and am guessing that you > wanted to see what sort of group we are. > > For myself I would say that some of the best OT talk > I have had has been on > this list and I thank you for kicking off another go > round of what are we as > occupational therapists all about anyway. Some of > the best and most > thoughtful insights have come from Susanne in > Denmark - beware of devaluing > the unfamiliar Bill. > > I especially enjoyed Jeannie rising so effectively > to Ron's challenge of > what is so amazing about OT as a profession. Jeannie > your OT life has been > different in content from mine but oh so similar in > feeling. I'm four years > older than you. I've been an OT for 18 years. It was > a mid life change. I > will be 70 next month. I wonder if this is a gender > issue in part with > females taking satisfaction from the particular > order to cope with the > frustrations of the general and males focusing on > the frustrations of the > general which prevents enjoying the positives of the > particular. They make > us think though. So there I go making an invalid ? > generalisation from > meagre data. > > Bill, I know you said you were not interested in OT > in the rest of the world > but I am going to answer your questions anyway. I > hope you have read this > far. I belong to the World Federation of > Occupational Therapists (Hi > Michael), the Canadian Association of Occupational > Therapists and the > Alberta Association of Registered Occupational > Therapists (soon to become > the Alberta College of Occupational Therapists - a > regulatory body with > mandatory membership in order to practice legally). > Until now I have had > complimentary membership in SAOT (guess what that > stands for) as our > association split the professional and regulatory > functions to comply with > new provincial legislation. I am a member of the > board of the Allen > Cognitive Network (Allen Advisors LTd.) > www.allen-cognitive-network.org to > put in a plug for my passion and what has really > kept me going as a > committed OT. > > I am struggling with whether to pony up the fee for > SAOT as I'm not doing > much paid work and my fees eat up a big check of it. > I've been committed to > CAOT and WFOT from the beginning. > > Joan Riches > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > > Of Bill Maloney > > Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 3:03 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [OTlist] questions > > > > This is my first posting to this list. I am > curious > > about a few things, so please feel free to > respond: > > > > How many of you reading this are currently members > of > > AOTA? Your state OT association? Use designation > of > > OTR, indicating that you are current with the > NBCOT? > > How many of your colleagues (same questions as > above > > if you know)? > > > > Thanks, > > Bill Maloney, OTR > > > > -- > > Unsubscribe? > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Change options? > > www.otnow.com/mailman/options/otlist_otnow.com > > > > Archive? > > www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > Help? > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/312 - > Release Date: 4/14/2006 > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.3/317 - > Release Date: 4/18/2006 > > > > ------------------------------ > > -- > Unsubscribe? > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Change options? > www.otnow.com/mailman/options/otlist_otnow.com > > Archive? > www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > Help? > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > End of OTlist Digest, Vol 15, Issue 5 > ************************************* > -- Unsubscribe? 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