Thanks for the feedback. Inline...
________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of Tony Wright [[email protected]] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 1:20 AM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: [OT] Visual Studio 2010 RC Hi David, I am running VS2008 side by side with VS2010. I haven't hit any issues lately because I've stopped using it. After the 3 other patches (which were fine as far as I could tell), the final one was Silverlight 4, which wasn't available in the RC (not even sure if there was an RC released for Silverlight 4). I branched the project and upgraded the new version, but there were a significant number of places in our project that required fixing to cater for broken references, and code changes (this will probably happen regardless as I'm sure upgrading RIA services will cause breaking changes. I'd probably live with that one, but it's still painful, and is likely to delay). We couldn't operate of two versions, so for safety sake we went back to VS2008, given that everything wasn't there when we tried, and the unknown problems we were worried might turn up. Non delivery of project phases due to upgrading our toolset is not acceptable. So firstly, to improve confidence (1) I would need to be sure that there aren't breaking changes, or if there are, that there are very few breaking changes. Too many changes means too much pressure to correct all the problems within a short timeframe I would get after being given the green light to upgrade. [davkean] Given this this is a side-by-side releasing, there will be some limited breaking changes. However, it should be a rather painless upgrade. For the breaking changes that we thought might affect customers, we typically have an opt in configuration switch to opt into the old behavior. (2) I would actually like to hear that everything that was promised has actually made it into the final product. That would mean that I don't have to install the release then a whole swag of patches just to get my team operational. That's a no brainer - if it's not all there, I won't do it straight away because it would end up being a hindrance rather than a help. Will Silverlight 4 make it to the RTM? And all the supporting tools? If it hasn't, wouldn't it be better to hold back the release until it does? (Supporting tools that are independent of VS2010 excluded, of course; it is acceptable for them to come later!) [davkean] Silverlight 4 won't be in the RTM of VS2010 - it will an extra installation on top of it. The reason for this, is because Silverlight ships on a different schedule and by a different group than the rest of VS2010/.NET 4.0. It's extremely hard to co-ordinate different group's product cycle to align with each another. In this case, VS2010 featureset had been locked down way before Silverlight 4.0 had even been announced. (3) It needs to have equal or better performance than VS2008. RC is ok, but not exceptional. Better is nice, but it won't kill us, it just better not be worse as each compile potentially takes productive time away from development/testing/debugging. I don't think management would tolerate our toolset becoming slower, so this is a must! [davkean] I absoluetely agree - we've spent a lot of the last year just looking at performance. I believe, looking at the last perf results, we're faster in some areas than VS2008, and a little slower in other areas (startup for example). (4) It needs to be equal or more stable that VS2008. If we have multiple instances of VS2010 open, will it eventually die just like VS2008 did? I haven't had a chance to test this. Unfortunately I find that having 2 or 3 instances open at a time (different projects) will require a restart 2 or 3 times a day. [davkean] For me, VS2010 is pretty stable, I pretty much keep it open for an entire week at a time. However, given that I'm mostly writing code and not using the designers (which I believe were the cause of a lot of VS2008 crashes), others experience might be different. One thing I will ask you to do - is send in those watson error reports when prompted. These are the first bugs that we fix. (5) It needs to have equal or less memory footprint that VS2008. (I have been known to have 19 applications open at once. People complain about how many applications I have open. It's the way I work, and I should be able to do it to get the best return on my investment in computing power.) Or at least it needs to better use the memory that it uses (or in VS2008, hogs). [davkean] I'm not sure where we are with this. Hope that helps. I'm hopefully not coming across as negative, as I'm generally an early adopter. I just think these are practical things that I would like and perhaps need to see before the upgrade is possible. Each non delivery has the potential to delay our upgrade. Regards, Tony -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Kean Sent: Friday, 26 March 2010 2:32 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: [OT] Visual Studio 2010 RC Tony, Can you elaborate on the problems you are hitting that weren't resolved by the additional patches? What's some of the critical major pieces that you believe are missing? I've been running VS 2010 pretty much since we started it and I can tell the latest builds are enormously better than the RC. David ________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 7:53 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: [OT] Visual Studio 2010 RC Well, I guess we'll give it a try again once the product is released, but if it gives us any trouble, it won't be worth the effort and we'll pull back until service pack 1. That said, Microsoft often have extra RCs internally before RTM anyway, so hopefully that has resolved most of the issues people have, although it's not until it's in widespread use that people often find any real problems. I still have an expectation that the process will be relatively easy - if it's not then the added features won't be enough for us to upgrade unfortunately. I certainly don't want to lose even one man day per person in my team just because of a shoddy release. And if it's a couple of days after we've upgraded before we find real problems, then we're going to be pretty peeved - the rollback to 2008 will be more painful than the upgrade I think. On Fri, Mar 26th, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Craig van Nieuwkerk <[email protected]> wrote: > RC seems to have lost it's meaning as most RC now are not really a > candidate at all to be the release version. When you see RC just > read > Beta. I think it is unlikely there will be another RC as the final > version is meant to be released in 2 weeks. > > Craig. > > > Hi all, > > > > I've been reading some of the comments on Scott Guthrie's blog, and > there seem to be quite a few > > people asking for an RC2 of Visual Studio 2010. I think I agree > with this, because I'm not > > convinced RC1 was anything more than a Beta anyway. I mean, how > could it really be a Release > > Candidate if it was delivered with major pieces missing? There's > nothing worse than having to > > install something and then apply a whole list of patches to get it > to behave the way you want it. > > What a waste of time that is. > > >
