What's HTML and why do I care... only kidding. But on a serious note I was referring primarily to other mobile platforms where iOS is wowful and Android is like drawing with crayons.
Nick Randolph | Built to Roam Pty Ltd | Microsoft MVP - Windows Phone Development | +61 412 413 425 | @btroam The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in this email in any way. Built to Roam Pty Ltd does not guarantee the integrity of any emails or attached files. The views or opinions expressed are the author's own and may not reflect the views or opinions of Built to Roam Pty Ltd. From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Friday, 8 June 2012 10:12 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Win8 Release Preview Yeah I disagree on that one. Adobe Edge for example still spanks Blends butt on the whole HTML5 front even though it's still in "Lab" mode. As I've probably stated in the past, the adoption of Blend has been so low that its been questioned numerous times whether or not it should be allowed to continue given it has failed in both sales and adoption metrics for years. Adobe Flash Professional and pretty much the alternative to .NET suite in that space is and has been the competitive and leading threat for that tool. It has also more numbers developing & designing with it today. Light-years ahead is something I just cannot see realistically being agreed upon both external and even internal. As for minimalizing the pain, I don't disagree that the API's etc should be a fairly reasonable adjustment, but I worry also about the custodianship of the developer community during the transition. Historically Microsoft have had a consistent response to confusing the crap and being very weak on answers around change so given the fragile nature of the as-is WP7 communities how this moves forward is more the question of concern(s) and makes me wonder whether or not a position that Wp7 is better than Android development story has legs (hard to say today). Note - I agree Wp7 development and even design today is probably the easiest of all for .NET developers to wrap there heads around in the mobile space. It's nearly almost friction free provided you've found ways to ignore Blend's inconsistencies and issues. I am still keen to see how Adobe handle their Tooling around this space though as i think they have finally gotten back to grass roots and stopped playing "we are a platform company" and back to "we are a tooling company" .. ie see PhoneGap etc and how its tracking. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 9:51 AM, Nick Randolph <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Scott - design tool it may not be, but Blend is light years ahead of other platforms. w.r.t. wp7 v's win8 - yes, most likely. We'll have to wait and see on that front. Whatever the story they'll be looking to minimize the pain for developers in both short and long term. Nick Randolph | Built to Roam Pty Ltd | Microsoft MVP - Windows Phone Development | +61 412 413 425<tel:%2B61%20412%20413%20425> | @btroam The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in this email in any way. Built to Roam Pty Ltd does not guarantee the integrity of any emails or attached files. The views or opinions expressed are the author's own and may not reflect the views or opinions of Built to Roam Pty Ltd. From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Friday, 8 June 2012 9:43 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Win8 Release Preview State of the art? ...VS i can subscribe to but you're not talking about Blend right?...right?.... How do you foresee them getting out from under Silverlight-centric API's in WP7 and opt for a more uniform approach via Win8 unified platform story? as at some point the temporary place holder (Silverlight) found in wp7 has to shift back into the work they are doing with Win8 for maybe wp8 or wp9 (specifically IE10 work)? Won't this also create another issue on the horizon around API forking(s) and misalignment (much like Android). --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 9:08 AM, Nick Randolph <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Hmmm, so you mean the fact that Wp7 and win8 dev is all XAML + C# (or VB.NET<http://VB.NET>) doesn't reduce the learning time? And the fact that we have state of the art application design tools doesn't make it quicker to build apps? I'm confused, what more do you want Microsoft to do. In terms of a geek phone - sure Android is always going to be a better option as it's an open platform but with it comes developer frustration and fragmentation (have you tried testing and shipping an Android app!). You also have to remember that Windows Phone trails by a year or so, and as such the apis are also trailing by that amount. I'd expect that the next drop will have some more goodness that will make our lives easier. Nick Randolph | Built to Roam Pty Ltd | Microsoft MVP - Windows Phone Development | +61 412 413 425<tel:%2B61%20412%20413%20425> | @btroam The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in this email in any way. Built to Roam Pty Ltd does not guarantee the integrity of any emails or attached files. The views or opinions expressed are the author's own and may not reflect the views or opinions of Built to Roam Pty Ltd. From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Friday, 8 June 2012 8:55 AM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: Win8 Release Preview I agree, i have found that Microsoft is changing the development paradigms so often that i have been looking at learning android/ios because i no longer see any gap differences between learning non MS development. I have had a wp7 phone for a year and still find the android better suited to my needs. Basically, anything advanced is not being done on wp7 as it restricts so much the apis. Anthony From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]]<mailto:[mailto:[email protected]]> On Behalf Of Greg Keogh Sent: Friday, 8 June 2012 8:06 AM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: Win8 Release Preview >sorry Greg, you indicated that you thought it's more confusing now, >I completely disagree as the metro guidelines are very strong) A web search for "Windows 8 design guidelines" produces some possibly useful information, and some of it is frightening. Where are the technical guidelines for developers? http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh464920.aspx >From this, I can understand that the points are admirable and must be the >result of vast amounts of research into how our eyes and brains work: clear, >clean, touch, scaling, charms, tiles, roaming, suspend, etc. It all generally >makes ergonomic and usability sense. Yes it's all certainly an admirable mission to implement these things. But I'm quite upset at the degree of sudden paradigm change and the lack of warning and advertising (even as a developer). Even if "the metro guidelines are very strong", they're completely mutated away from any guidelines that have gone before. I'm extra angry simply because of the extra workload and burden of leaning yet another suddenly released standard. Development is hard enough already with a huge mess of kits, tools, operating systems, languages and patterns all competing with each other and giving me too much choice (too much choice is a bad thing!). Now I have Win8 and Metro on top if it all, just more sh*t to bog me down and waste more time futzing around in what I know will be hopeless hair-tearing frustration where everything doesn't work. So I guess I'll have to try and develop a Win8 compliant app and see how difficult it is. How anyone done this and can report from the coal face of coding? Greg
