Re: [ozmidwifery] re. sleep article

Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:50:18 -0800

Hear! Hear! Marilyn. I would also like to add that an article showing so many sleep problems in older children is almost "proof" that the very prevalent sleep school training in infancy does not "teach" babies to sleep/ instil good sleep patterns etc  - for life!  Babies and children are changing beings and we need to look at each individual situation, not give one sized fits all responses.
 
I often think the stresses of school life are enough to have sensitive kids wakeful at night or having difficulty falling asleep - just as if we have a stressful/ busy day and find it difficult to wind down. Kids of any age need some "wind down" rhythm around bedtime. I think its easy to "create" problems when we dont observe individual kids needs whether they are babies or older kids. Surely so much of this is basic common sense and "Being a parent" instead of abdicating responsibility - ie expecting kids to behave conveniently and not supporting them to lead a healthy lifestyle by giving in to harrassment over junk food and allowing Tv / computers etc to babysit - lord knows its tempting to avoid the struggles at times :) I didnt have this challenge with my older kids so I do empathise with anyone trying to limit computer time.
 
I am also utterly shocked at the "normalness" of coke , soft drinks etc. I have had neighbourhood kids stay who would rather dehydrate than drink plain water and recently one who, on an outing (they went boat riding , swimming etc and I took fruit and snacks) ke[t asking over and over, "Can we buy a bag of lollies" Obviously sugar addicted. I have mentioned to parents re coke, boys and hyperactivity and they say, I havent noticed (bloody hell! maybe because their kids spend more time at my house!!). Obviously my kid isnt the only one who is revved beyond sleep when he ets junk food and plays too long on the computer.
 
By the way Melinda -I have been feeling utterly exhausted these past few days - I stopped at  a GREEN traffic light a couple of days ago!! and I have had unbroken sleep, no babies in my house (I do have an unwell older child) and even my husband spent a couple of days interstate (so I wasnt 'cosleeping'  :) . Maybe I need my thyroid checked again? or. perhaps it is the enormous expectation placed on women to be all things to everyone and difficulty finding siesta  time  - or fiesta time -I am sure some good laughs and company help lighten the load and alter perspective (and whinge factor).
 
I fell into co-sleeping out of necessity -I especially would never have managed to function with my youngest (and teenagers) if I had not co-slept - my big kids were up later than I needed to be and baby woke early so sleeping hours were limited. I did lie down and breastfeed often and this is wonderful for "revival" . I hear many mums say they find this difficult, but a  mum of a three month old came ecstatic to my Gentle Beginnings class this week - she had discovered breasfeeding lying down and was singing its praises -a small thing that we experienced mums might take for granted that can make a significant difference to matenal exhaustion.
 
Pinky
 
 
My older kids were "conditioned" to quiet time every afternoon when they were small - even tho one gave up all day sleeps at 6 months (and THAT was tiring when his 2 year old brother still slept). I encourage mums to try and make this "rest time"  happen but I know how easy it is to see it as "me" time in an active way. Even if a child plays with lego or has story time with mum, I am sure it helps everyones moods and concentration.  
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 12:42 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] re. sleep article

I would like to say at the opening that I totally support co-sleeping and actively do this with the the women I support as a midwife.
 
However, I also believe that sleep requirements (like many other aspects of midiwfery care) are highly individual. Some people do very well on 3-4 hrs of sleep/24 hr period, other of us need 6-8 hours of good sleep and others still need 8-10 hours. We have a bit of a tendency to make heroes of those who need 3-4 hours. And often others try desperately to emmulate them.
 
Of course we deny ourselves sleep if our children need us in the night, as good parents we tend their need and endure the exhaustion. BUT, dare I say this, if this becomes a habit rather than a real need, we (unless we fit into the group that need minimal sleep) do become chronically sleep deprived and quite frankly I don't think this benefits anyone. We have to look at what is going on.
 
Now, I do firmly believe that it is totally possible for cosleeping parents and babies to get good sleep. And I acknowledge that the early postpartum is often a state of sleep deprivation especially if the mother is finding it difficult to sleep during the day due to other responsibilities. Sleep should be a number 1 priority, if it does then things often just fall into place.
 
Somehow the trick is to encourage children to enjoy their sleep time and look forward to it. Apparently easier said than done.
 
All that being said, I think the child behavior patterns the media is now reporting on are concerning: we have to stop the habits of filling our children with sugary drinks (be that cordial or softdrink) and caffeine (from a confirmed coffee drinker as an adult), feeding them junk food (whether we bought it take away or spent hours preparing it), indulging their need for every advertised toy and convincing ourselves that the "gameboys" etc. are educational (I actually have heard very convincing arguments for this) and get back to actually parenting our children, non-violently, in a concerned, passionate, compassionate, loving, but non-indulgent way (ie they just don't get everything they want), in other words we have to set some boundaries (I actually hate that word, but have use it sometimes) and learn to care for ourselves too so that we parent wisely.
 
marilyn
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 6:45 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] re. sleep article

As a co-sleeping mum who has just joined this list recently - I must say I'm enjoying thi sleep thread immensly!
 
Not sure if I'm wandering a little too far off the path - but I thought I'd post this question I've been pondering of late......
 
Whilst many of us agree on the benefits of co-sleeping for both mum and baby - it does interest me how often I hear/read about co-sleeping parents who literally describe themselves as "walking zombies", "chronically sleep deprived" and "mindless" due to the lack of sleep they have been receiving since the birth of their co-sleeping children.
 
What I'm wondering is this.....is this fatigue in direct response to their co-sleeping r'ship with their child?
 
And if so - do you believe that this sleep deprivation is more so a reflection of our Western approach to sleep and daily life in general ie. mothers are not only expected to tend to their babies at night - but also get up and cook, clean, do school pick up etc all the following day?
 
OR
 
Do you believe or know to be true that this pattern of chronic sleep deprivation is also an experience felt by traditional women practiticing this form of attached parenting also?
 
Strange question I know.
 
But in light of the fact that this sleep deprivation is most often the reason why parents choose NOT to share sleep with their kids.....I think its an area that we do really need to examine more closely.
 
I tend to believe that its not so much the impact of the co-sleep approach that's the problem - but more so our societal expectations of women as mothers day to day that causes them to lose steam and steer away from such an intense, attached experience of parenting their children. Which if true - offers up a very sad message about what we as a society truly value as important.
 
Keen to hear all your thoughts on this one.
 
 
Melinda Whyman
 
NATURAL PARENTING MELBOURNE
www.naturalparenting.com.au/npm/
~Parenting Naturally - Respecting our children and our Earth~
Phone: +61 3 9756 0464
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 11:02 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] re. sleep article

Is it any wonder that all these children are havng such a dreadful time sleeping - when we live in a world  a "good" baby is one who sleeps all night... and tucked far away in her own bed, in another room .. (like it or not)... AND if she doesn't do that... make her scream and sob her heart out... her spirit will eventually be broken....she'll surrender and eventually sleep....
" a mother and a newborn have every right to be together from birth on. This can make a significant contribution toward producing a trusting individual capable of warm, close relationships. Both Mother and Child have a need for reciprocal stimulation which should not be interfered with. Yet the greatest interference of all is placed upon them. Separation. The reasons for this separation are now being questioned."
(The Family Bed by Tine Thevenin)...
"A lot of people are so square as to think they're entitled to a night's sleep. Nobody is entitled to a full nights sleep, whether a parent or not, if someone needs her or him."
(also from the Family Bed)
kind regards,
Nicole
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 7:34 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Interesting article

This is interesting and makes me wonder if there was any pattern in the sleeping arrangements of these children?? i.e. co-sleeping, separate bedrooms etc....this seems to be often overlooked as a variable in such studies.
 
 
 
Helen Cahill

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