Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: Breech Babies

[Michelle Windsor]

Both our consultants will attempt ECV if the woman wants, provided there is adequate liquor and no cord entanglement etc.  I can't tell you the success rate, but there are definitely those they have turned which have then birthed vaginally. 

 

Cheers

Michelle

Helen and Graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I had a friend about 8 years ago who was a primip breech and desperately
wanted to give birth naturally. She managed to convince her ob to try
cephalo-version on the operating table (on a weekday when all the staff were
there anyway) so that if there had been a placental abruption or some other
complication, she would have been able to have a caesar. It worked. Seems
a bit dramatic but not as bad as just giving the nod to a caesar in the
first place.

Has anyone else had much to do with cephalo-version?

Helen Cahill

----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 5:34 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: Breech Babies


I have just been surfing this site, some good stuff. I have a
multi with a breech at 36+ wke at! the moment and I dearly want
her to be able to birth here.
Cheers
Judy

--- Vedrana Valèiæ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> A very interesting discussion on breech births and midwives:
>
> http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/breech.htm
>
> Vedrana
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Miriam Hannay
> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 6:10 AM
> To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: Breech Babies
>
> I totally understand, Susan about the whole fear of
> breech birth. We have a couple of OBs who will 'let'
> women birth a breech babe vaginally, but fully
> managed, IOL, 16 gauge bores in both arms, hartmann's
> up, McRoberts, episi, full extraction. To me this
> seems torture. I am a second year Bmid student and
> in! tending to go into independent practice, so am
> availing myself of every extra learning opportunity
> available.
>
> A fellow student and I (my lovely partner in crime),
> attended Maggie Banks' emergency skills workshop in
> Melbourne recently which was SO valuable, and we feel
> much more comfortable about the possibility now.
>
> I have a dear friend whose first 'catch' as an RM was
> an undiagnosed breech at home, so it does happen. We
> need to be prepared and develop the skills to handle
> this situation. What a shame and potential danger it
> is if these skills fall by the way.
>
> Everyone who can should hear Maggie Banks speak, she
> dispells fears and demystifies like no-one else.
>
> Regards, Miriam (FUSA)
>
> --- Susan Cudlipp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>
> > Yes it was Brenda who wrote that, but I have also
> > been a midw! ife long enough
> > to have seen many breech births - back in the UK,
> > and delivered a few
> > myself. Not all good, mostly quite 'managed' but at
> > least they were mostly
> > seen as being manageable vaginally! My own elective
> > C/S (nearly 21 years old
> > now!) was for primip breech, although I was given
> > the choice of vaginal
> > birth, I knew just what that would entail within the
> > large unit that I was
> > obliged to attend - epidural, forceps, episiotomy,
> > and I chose not to go
> > there, however at that time there was no question
> > that I would not be able
> > to have VBAC with the next - nowadays that is not
> > so.
> >
> > A year or so back we had a multi with a breech who
> > was lucky enough to see a
> > less interventionist OB (as you so rightly guessed
> > Melissa :! -)) and she
> > chose to have a vaginal birth. Of course it had to
> > be induced on the 'right'
> > day, but was very straight forward. Apart from that
> > we really don't see
> > them anymore, and at least one of the few docs who
> > does do them does such a
> > horrendous job that I would personally prefer a C/S
> > rather than submit to
> > his handling.( you can probably guess that one too
> > Mel!)
> >
> > It is sad that student midwives today will not learn
> > these essential skills
> > within the hospital system. Personally I feel
> > confident that I can handle
> > an unexpected breech, but cannot see how the next
> > generation are going to
> > cope with this, there is so much fear of what is
> > really only a different
> > variety of birth, in the same way that any
> > 'different' pre! sentation is.
> > Anyone who has had the pleasure of hearing Maggie
> > Banks speak, watched her
> > video, or that of Michel Odent's work in Pithiers
> > will know that this is
> > true
> >
> > Rachel, I totally empathise with how you are feeling
> > having just come to
> > Australia from the UK (been here 15 years myself).
> > It was a real shock to
> > me to see how much all births are seen as being the
> > doctor's property. One
> > of my first births here was in a small hospital and
> > I called the GP as per
> > protocol. He arrived as I had the head in my hands
> > and proceeded to rush
> > in, without even washing his hands and virtually
> > pushed me out of the way!
> > I looked at him with horror and said quietly " I
> > think I may as well finish
> > the job now don't you?" He did step b! ack and let me
> > finish. Some years
> > later he admitted that he had learned a few things
> > from me - one of which
> > was to wait for restitution before trying to deliver
> > the shoulders! They
> > were always in such a goddamn hurry to drag the baby
> > out, it drove me mad.
> >
> > >> When they are faced with an 'expert' obstetrician
> > (often a male authority
> > >> figure) telling them their baby is in danger -
> > they will chose to protect
> > >> their child because as a mother that is their
> > instinct.
> > >>
> > An example of this happened to me just this week -
> > the head was well and
> > truly crowned (primip, long labour, NO fetal
> > distress) but OB insisted on
> > listening to FH immediately ctx ended - it was about
> > 100, and he took over
&g! t; > from me to apply forceps. I was not concerned for
> > the baby as I knew there
> > had been no compromise throughout and that he would
> > be born within minutes,
> > but within the system I am obliged to defer to the
> > doctor's judgement,
> > whether or not I agree with it. Believe me, I know
> > well what happens when
> > one tries to argue!!
> >
> > I hope you maintain your own integrity and autonomy
> > - it is very different
> > here to what we knew in UK, but we do need to keep
> > pushing for midwifery led
> > care. I feel that much of the problem lies with
> > how we are percieved and
> > presented within this system. We are seen as being
> > secondary and forced
> > into a 'waitress' role, while doctors are glorified
> > as being all-knowing
> > experts. I have spent ages discussing thi! ngs with
> > couples only to have
> > everything overturned by a 5 minute doctor
> > appointment.
> > Nice to have your input on the list
> > Sue
> > "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is
> > for good men to do
> > nothing"
> > Edmund Burke
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "brendamanning"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:26 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re:
> >
> >
> > > Rachel,
> > >
> > > Actually that was me (Brenda)not Sue, who wrote
> > about the physiological
> > > breeches, and I do realise now that experience is
> > rare.
> > > When you speak about choice & what you'd do if you
> > had a breech baby
> > >! yourself you are really limited because there are
> > not many of us in PP who
> > > have experience with breeches.
> > > I would definitely not alter plans to birth at
> > home if my baby was breech
> > > (but I have had 4 children) finding a MW to attend
> > would be a difficult
> > > task though!
> > > There is no way on earth I'd consent to surgery to
> > remove my healthy baby
> > > just because he was upside down !
> > > The next best option here would be to go to our
> > local private hospital
> > > with my own MW & the OB who supports us (he was
> > the OB who had enough
> > > belief in women 10 years ago to be present for
> > their breech births but now
> > > is 'not allowed' to do them because of the breech
> > trial).
> > > I would just insist, but then I can be very> > determined !!
> > >
> > > BM
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "wump fish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:55 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re:
> > >
> > >
> > >> Sue, you are so lucky to have cared for women
> > having a physiological
> > >> breech. I have only seen one vaginal breech - and
> > it was far from
> > >> physiological (epidural, stirrups, fiddling about
> > etc).
> > >>
> > >> Unfortunately it doesn't matter what we teach
> > women about saying 'no'.
> > >> When they are faced with an 'expert' obstetrician
> > (often a male authority
> > >> figure) telling them their baby is in danger -
> > they w! ill chose to protect
> > >> their child because as a mother that is their
> > instinct.
> > >>
> > >> Women need to be making decisions such as
> > c-section within a partnership
> > >> relationship with a known midwife. They should be
> > given honest,
> > >> evidence-based info by someone who truely
> > believes in the body's ability
> > >> to birth (ie. not a dr) and will support their
> > decision whatever it is
> > >> (including c-section). Women would then be able
> > to make choices which are
> > >> right for them as individuals - not right for the
> > system.
> > >>
> > >> As for breech birth. The Term-Breech Trial is
> > often used by the obs as
> > >> evidence that breech birth is unsafe for the
> > baby. However, this is not
>! ; > >> what it shows. It can only tell us what happens
> > in large hospitals with
> > >> obs management of breech birth. It does not
> > compare physiological birth
> > >> with c-secion. Based on the findings - if I was
> > planning a breech birth I
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
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