While we're making noise, can we please scream for Silverlight on
Windows Mobile? I know it's coming in WM7, but MS said that about the
last 2 releases of WM.
It's highly frustrating that we have to invest in standard WM
development when most of our code is going in the bin once Silverlight
finally appears on WM.
I love Microsoft, but this is beyond being fashionably late!
Carl.
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Scott
Barnes <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, 3 January 2010 12:54 PM
To: ozSilverlight <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Guidance for Moonlight compatibility
Your blogs or contact folks in Microsoft in general. More noise gets
made, more people inside start to panic a little.
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel
Madero
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 8:36 PM
To: ozSilverlight
Subject: Re: Guidance for Moonlight compatibility
Where can we vote or make some noise to push this forward?
On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Scott Barnes <[email protected]>
wrote:
heh i've had this email forwarded to me 3 times since you guys wrote
this, as a few people inside Microsoft know my internal struggle to get
this entire site deleted and redone (and are like "dude, you will just
cry or laugh"). It's actually 1000th cut for me and was one of the major
contributing reasons as to why I quit the Silverlight team was this site
and the constant amount of incompetence I witnessed at its creation.
It's doing us all absolutely no favors in both being informative and at
the same time helping the friction associated with installing
Silverlight and i highlighted this with analytics to back it to the
teams. It's a known problem is my point yet 4 months still, nothing.
This (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mossyblog/4238051115/sizes/l/) is a
temporary redesign I did for the experience, but it was rejected due to
ego/politics getting in the way - my last manager and I just didn't see
eye to eye on the direction of what i had already established and was
about to establish in terms of digital marketing for Silverlight
(twitter, websites etc).
There are really three modes of installation here for end users:
. Officially Supported -
Your Operating System/Device and Browser meets the required conditions
for Silverlight. Please proceed.
. Un-Officially Supported -
Your Operating System and/or Browser aren't officially supported but we
all kind of know it works (i.e. Chrome browser for example).
. Technically not supported -
Your device/browser just can't handle Silverlight. You can download the
exe/dmg file direct if you like, but basically you're on your own
(iPhone etc).
It's actually quite a simplistic amount of code and Tim Heuer, Scott
Hansleman and I worked on the code base I sent to the team before I
left, so it should be an easy fix and was ready for release (had some
testing gates to go through but they would of been a walk in the park).
Anyway, i know ScottGu and few others have raised concerns over this
page, and this is probably the 9th instance of this situation flaring up
but still falling on deaf ears. I tried to get it changed when i was in
the actual team that owns the problem and couldn't get anything done so
i think leading up to SL4 most will have to wait until after MIX or
around MIX before you see any movement here at the very least. This
thread could spur things along, but doubtful.
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel
Madero
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 6:17 AM
To: ozSilverlight
Subject: Re: Guidance for Moonlight compatibility
I just tried opening a Silverlight 3.0 website on my Ubuntu machine.
Apparently I already have an old version of Moonlight 2.0. The
experience is embarassing to say the least. Wrong instructions, hideous
looking website and the worst of all, the uninstall experience is awful.
This is a glance of what your linux customers will experience:
The typical Install experience. This might be customizable for your own
site.
According to the text there's suppose to be a "Click to Install" button.
There's no button or link saying "Click to Install". There's something
that doesn't look like a link but it's the link that after some
redirect's took take me to "http://go-mono.com/moonlight/";.
This looks much nicer. Something like what I would expect. Although it's
really confusing that the Microsoft site doesn't mention moonlight, mono
or Novell, but we could probably live with that (or I mean, our users
might just decide to ignore that and install anyway assuming they're
still on a Microsoft site or they also trust that other party).
After that page. There's another with a direct link to the plugin and
the installation takes 2 seconds, restarts the brower and restarts FF
reopening all of the pages that I'd open. However, I wasn't redirected
to my site and I had to manually navigate to the page I originally
opened, this is critical, this means you potentially lost your user
unless he's really keen on manually going back to the page he was
looking.
Once FF restarted, I navigated back to my site. I wasn't expecting it to
work, I know Moonlight is only compatible with SL2. I was expecting some
message saying that this application requires features not available on
my platform or something meaningful, but no, big surprise. FF crashes on
all the SL3 sites I've visited. This might be something specific to my
installation (I hope). The good news is that for the SL2 sites (hard to
found) seems to work just fine.
Probably I'm underestimating Linux users and they are used to worst
experiences, but, it's still not one that I'd choose for my users. I
hope Microsoft puts some effort on doing a decent landing page and that
Novell (or Microsoft) fixes the versioning issues.
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Miguel Madero <[email protected]>
wrote:
I think that targets current Eclipse (mainly Java I think) developers
that want to do some Silverlight for their front-end, but that's not for
moonlight, that's for the .NET Silverlight Runtime.
In this case I think of two options:
*Use monodevelop, which I read has specific support for Moonlight &
Silverlight
* Visual Studio, but I'm not sure if you would have to recompile the
same project using the mono compiler, but I'd expect that the same xap
just works in mono without changes assuming you target SL 2 assemblies
only.
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Ola Karlsson
<[email protected]> wrote:
You might be able to use Eclipse 4 SL http://www.eclipse4sl.org/
>From their site:
Version 1.0: October 28th , 2009
Features included in version 1.0 are:
. Silverlight 2.0 support
Roadmap towards version 2: general availability planned for spring 2010
We plan to release intermediate beta or Community Technology Preview
(CTP) showing progress and seeking feedback on the following features:
. Silverlight 3.0 support
So it looks like you might be able to use that for SL 2 development....
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Miguel Madero <[email protected]>
wrote:
Also consider targetting SL2 :s
In the moonlight site <http://www.go-mono.com/moonlight/> they mention
you can use the tools available (VS?) but they don't get into specifics.
You can develop Silverlight/Moonlight applications using both the tools
available on Windows or in Linux and MacOS you can use the MonoDevelop
<http://monodevelop.com/> Integrated Development Environment.
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:44 AM, John OBrien
<[email protected]> wrote:
Timely to see Moonlight2 released overnight and promise of Moonlight 3
in
the latter half of next year:
http://team.silverlight.net/announcement/moonlight-2-is-now-available/
Its seems to imply Silverlight 2 compatibility only and yet SL3
features.
How do we target it? Current default Silverlight 3 experience seems to
be
the linux user ends up confused.
There is some way to provide SL2 vs SL3 application on autodetect from
memory, sounds like some experimentation is needed.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Barry
Beattie
Sent: Friday, 18 December 2009 10:07 AM
To: ozSilverlight
Subject: Re: Guidance for Moonlight compatibility
I'm also interested in this.
> What version details do
> we put on the plugin? Can we publish a Moonlight XAP and a Silverlight
XAP
> and autodetect?
Ewww... makes it hard if you're trying to provide a consistant UX...
or fall back to a lowest common denominator. 21st century browser
wars.
Moonlight support: 'cos MS isn't in control of this platform, there's
no guarentee that Moonlight will ever match functionality to
Silverlight, yes?
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--
Miguel A. Madero Reyes
www.miguelmadero.com (blog)
[email protected]
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