Hi Orsan,
As Brian suggests I suspect you may be adrift about Weiner personally
but the integration of military and political agendas of the kind you
describe was very apparent while I was working and visiting MIT in the 60s.
For some background, take a look at my 1965 film about MIT 'How to be
First' <http://www.veoh.com/watch/v47355561kATdtzG8>which MIT tried
(unsuccessfuly) to block being transmitted in the US due to the way it
points to MIT's integration with the military/industrial complex . I
recall being impressed that some of the usual banks of IBM tape machine
had tags attached saying 'Property of the Department of the Navy'.
Denis
On 17/08/2015 18:53, Orsan wrote:
Probably there is a short circuit here as Franz and Brian you may be
rightly identified.. Yet how naive can a brain like Wiener? To miss
where life is leading him, and his work, paid by state and army. Can a
scientist be so precise and creative in systemic thinking and knows so
much about its relation of developing control mechanisms, and then be
so naive about where it is going... Does she or he have the luxury of
being ir- or non-responsible?
Wiener, Bertalanffy, Hebb, Von Neumann, Boltzmann, Bohr, even Einstein
... This large network of East European scientists and philosophers,
interestingly most of them having reformist-Jewish family back ground,
and somehow influenced by the relativist and energetic ideas and work
of Ernst Mach- most of them linked to or connected to -in Europe-
Vienna circle and Mont Pellerin society and -in US- Chicago where Von
Misses and Von Hayek (both are staunch followers of Carl Menger) built
their hubs (later Chicago centered Austrian School of Economists -
also known as 'Mach circle') and attracted state and corporate funders
like Rockefeller, Ford, Rand. These hubs became central to the
emergence of the Big Brother: networks of state and TNCs led
cybernetics and complex systems management centers (known as operation
research units) like Los Alamos, MIT labs, Silicon Valley, as Google's
and NSA-Prism's birth places.
May be in terms of Wiener's or Bertalanffy's specific personalities I
have followed incorrectly connected dots and reached early/wrong
opinions. Yet I believe that they were very well aware of what they
have been doing, and what that was serving for. This is totally
opposite to what Bogdanov have done and how he done that, he developed
much more complete, compact and flawless theorization of complex
systems and their internal, external and interconnected dynamic
formation and changes, to steer the change bottom up. Not to steer thr
steerers, from winter palace. The most important point is what SSCB
missed with Bogdanov is caught and exploited by the West by resulting
in most sophisticated and meta-algorithmic war and oppression machine,
that is globalized capital and the transnationalised state, resting on
transnationally networked control and informational management of
organization of the people, things, ideas, behaviors, even nerves, and
genes.
Orsan
On 17 aug. 2015, at 16:52, Brian K Murphy <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Have you actually /read/ this book, Orsan? I have considered it
‘required reading’ since I discovered it in the late sixties. It is
a profound and trenchant warning about the dehumanizing trajectory of
technology in the 20th century, and the inevitable enslavement of
humans in the service of the machine...
On 16 Aug 2015, at 10:52 am, Orsan wrote:
Human as a mean of production, by ex-nazi 21. cc Malthus, Norbert
Wiener, a good friend of von Hayek. Wiener is guilty of plagrimism
and assimilating work of Alexander Bogdanov, and put it in service of
the builders of the panotpticon during the cold war:
s
"This is one of the fundamental documents of our time, a period
characterized by the concepts of 'information' and 'communications'.
Norbert Wiener, a child prodigy and a great mathematician, coined the
term 'cybernetics' to characterize a very general science of 'control
and communication in the animal and machine'. It brought together
concepts from engineering, the study of the nervous system and
statistical mechanics (e.g. entropy). From these he developed
concepts that have become pervasive through science (especially
biology and computing a common parlance: 'in formation', 'message',
'feedback' and 'control'. He wrote, 'the thought of every age is
reflected in its technique . . . If the seventeenth and early
eighteenth centuries are the age of clocks, and the later eighteenth
and nineteenth centuries constitute the age of steam engines, the
present time is the age of communication and control.' "
http://asounder.org/resources/weiner_humanuse.pdf
_______________________________________________
** WSFDiscuss is an open and unmoderated forum for the exchange of
information and views on the experience, practise, and theory of the
World Social Forum at any level (local, national, regional, and
global) and on related social and political movements and issues.
Join in !**
_______________________________________________
WSFDiscuss mailing list
POST to LIST : Send email to
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
SUBSCRIBE: Send empty email to
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
UNSUBSCRIBE: Send empty email to
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
LIST ARCHIVES:
http://openspaceforum.net/pipermail/worldsocialforum-discuss_openspaceforum.net/
LIST INFORMATION:
http://openspaceforum.net/mailman/listinfo/worldsocialforum-discuss_openspaceforum.net
/There is no way to peace; peace is the way.../
_______________________________________________
** WSFDiscuss is an open and unmoderated forum for the exchange of
information and views on the experience, practise, and theory of the
World Social Forum at any level (local, national, regional, and
global) and on related social and political movements and issues.
Join in !**
_______________________________________________
WSFDiscuss mailing list
POST to LIST : Send email to
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
SUBSCRIBE: Send empty email to
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
UNSUBSCRIBE: Send empty email to
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
LIST ARCHIVES:
http://openspaceforum.net/pipermail/worldsocialforum-discuss_openspaceforum.net/
LIST INFORMATION:
http://openspaceforum.net/mailman/listinfo/worldsocialforum-discuss_openspaceforum.net
_______________________________________________
P2P Foundation - Mailing list
Blog - http://www.blog.p2pfoundation.net
Wiki - http://www.p2pfoundation.net
Show some love and help us maintain and update our knowledge commons by making
a donation. Thank you for your support.
https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/donation
https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
--
new site text
I have a new web-site: denis.postle.net <http://denis.postle.net> -
street poetry, free ebooks, writing, photos, videos, music and therapy
all in one place.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
_______________________________________________
P2P Foundation - Mailing list
Blog - http://www.blog.p2pfoundation.net
Wiki - http://www.p2pfoundation.net
Show some love and help us maintain and update our knowledge commons by making
a donation. Thank you for your support.
https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/donation
https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
