I don't see how this is contradictory, we don't have the power to implement this in the world, 'all at once' but certain regions and countries can set the example ; there are also groups working for a global BIG but I can't recall the name for now
At least while we wait for this, http://p2pfoundation.net/International_Simultaneous_Policy_Organization On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 6:40 AM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > Well, the problem is more that it is not very well thought out and coming > out over 50 years after Jorn's *Situationists and Automation *I feel we > should have something a bit more coherent. (I am sorry, I was just reading > that this afternoon) > > If the idea is that this is universal, i.e. guaranteed to everyone > regardless of their national documentation, immigration status etc. etc. > well then it does have profound implications. But hey, I don't think that's > what is being discussed - can anyone go to Brazil and get some of this > B.I.G.? > > Anything else reinforces xenophobia as can be seen in the UK where > anti-immigration sentiments have been whipped up by talk about benefit > tourism. > > I don't understand how having B.I.G. in one country can take us much > further than another debased form of socialism in one country? > > all the best > > Fabian > > > > On 02 November 2015 at 12:36 Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> > wrote: > > agreed, > > but I think there is one thing that proponents underestimate, > > as Polanyi showed, making labour into a commodity was really central for > capitalism, and the basic income would profoundly undo that, in fact making > labour into a commons, > > it is worth fighting for, but let's not imagine it will be easy as this is > in fact a very radical proposal, which will overturn a lot of common logics > .. for example, it is likely that intellectual jobs will be paid less, > physical labor more, as no one will want to do them, > > Michel > > On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 7:32 PM, Anna Harris <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I agree with you Michel, it is not necessary to the argument for basic > income. But it enables us to see the *necessity* for the BI rather than > seeing it as just a utopian dream. The lack of jobs, and the continued > demand for people to be in work, makes no sense unless you see it in the > background of developing automation which is replacing labour, and which is > traditionally resisted by labour. It is this attitude which needs to open > to seeing automation as serving our interests rather than being the enemy > which deprives us of work. > > Anna > > On 2 Nov 2015, at 12:05, Michel Bauwens < [email protected]> > wrote: > > this hypothesis weakens the book in my opinion, it is not necessary to > posit this to be for the basic income ... > > Michel > > On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Anna Harris <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Good question Ursula, and not one I can answer fully. It is the term the > authors use on the book cover. > They say: > "FULL AUTOMATION > With automation.......machines can increasingly produce all necessary > goods and services, while also releasing humanity from the effort of > producing them. For this reason, we argue that the tendencies towards > automation and the replacement of human labour should be enthusiastically > accelerated and targeted as a political project of the left. This is a > project that takes an existing capitalist tendency and seeks to push it > beyond the acceptable parameters of capitalist social relations." (P109) > > A vision of a post work society where people's time is free to use as they > wish is the basis for this demand. If this becomes a project of the left, > hopefully there is more possibility to influence and guide this tendency so > that it serves all of humanity rather than just the few. > > Anna > > On 2 Nov 2015, at 10:00, Ursula Huws < [email protected]> > wrote: > > What do you mean by ‘full automation’? Ursula > > > > *From:* Anna Harris [mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>] > *Sent:* 02 November 2015 09:19 > *To:* [email protected]; > [email protected] > *Cc:* Ursula Huws <[email protected]> > *Subject:* NEW FROM VERSO: INVENTING THE FUTURE BY NICK SRNICEK AND ALEX > WILLIAMS > > > > This book offers the framework of building a campaign strategy around the > demand for full automation and a basic income for all. This is not a short > term demand but a vision of what can be achieved if labour groups come > together with academics and supporters to design the future. > > > > Personally I believe they have drawn the supporting network too narrowly. > But that only makes the case for this campaign even more strongly. I wrote > some time ago: > > > > BIG (basic income guaranteed) may be revolutionary, but it does not need > the economic system to change drastically in order to be introduced. In > that sense it is reformist, although the effects are revolutionary. > The big advantages are that > 1. it can be introduced without massive changes to the economic system. > 2. It is a very simple idea which can be appreciated by people without > much knowledge of the economy. > 3. It has been tried in pilot experiments, and found to be successful in > stimulating economic activity. (Brazil) > 4. Many economists agree (James Robertson, Jeremy Rifkin, Edward Snowden, > Richard Swift) that with technology replacing many jobs that previously > required human labour, BIG of some sort is necessary. > 5. Naomi Klein highlights it in her latest book This Changes Everything, > as one of the game changing battles that 'don't merely aim to change laws, > but changes patterns of thought.'(p 641) > > > > The authors are coming to Leeds for an open discussion on Nov 14. > > > > https://www.facebook.com/events/1624336424483090/ > > > > I believe that this campaign could appeal widely across all political > spectrums, and would welcome more discussion on this list. > > > > Anna > > > _______________________________________________ > NetworkedLabour mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour > > > > > -- > Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: > http://commonstransition.org > > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net > > <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens > > #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ > > > > > -- > Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: > http://commonstransition.org > > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net > > <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens > > #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ > _______________________________________________ > NetworkedLabour mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour > > > > -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
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