you are right, I was the confused one, based on the file name <g> I know robin well,
Michel On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 12:59 AM, Anna Harris <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Michel, > > The piece was an interview with Robin Murray, posted by Peter. Confusion > may be because he was talking to Jeremy Gilbert and Andrew Goffey, and > names have been compressed in the title, quoted below. > > Robin Murray is an industrial and environmental economist. Among many > other projects and roles, he was Director of Industry and Employment at the > Greater London Council in the 1980s > > Anna > > On 8 Nov 2015, at 16:40, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote: > > I'm guessing gilbert murray should not be confused with the Robin M. that > we know, > > Michel > > On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 9:26 PM, Orsan <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Indeed, agree with Anna, it is extremely interesting analysis from Robin >> Murray. I think interviewers were referred by Wark's piece on Inventing >> Future book. The interview is a really enlightening one to me. >> >> On the one hand, because it was in Amsterdam networked labour gathering >> Robin and Michel met, and there were others mentioned in the interview like >> Hilary Wainwright, whose specific warning I always take as a guidance, >> makes this input special. While reading the text I remembered something >> Hilary used to talked, or warned about which was avoiding to replicate the >> mistake of of 68 generation (or resistance to capitalism / rulers in >> general) in helping capitalism reinvent itself. I took that warning >> very serious and kept in mind. And while reading Robin's story, things get >> both clear and fuzzy at the same time, in terms of this mistake. >> >> Below is again relevant event; the intro page of Platform Cooperativism >> conference taking place in NY next week. While looking at the Platform >> that is formed by the organizers, Scholz and Schinider which brings funders >> like Ford and Rosa Luxemburg, with unions like IG metal and Free Lancers >> Union, as well as participants like head of Microsoft research unit and >> CEO of free lancers Union co. Horowicth on the one hand and those like >> Stallman, Barbrook, Bauwens, Wark, Kleiner, Mayo, so on on the other.. My >> confusion accelerated - in relation to Hilary's warning. Can't help asking >> myself aren't, we, or this setting is helping out to capitalism to reinvent >> itself towards post-post-fordism. Even though the hope, or politics behind >> is that we culturally could make a good influence on the enemy, may be >> transform their thinking? >> >> Hence whilst I see Wark's criticism about this point and share his >> worries, what appears interesting is that he is on of the most enthusiasts >> attendant -as Trebor he is being part of the New School cadre hosting the >> event. Moreover, thinking of the recent piece shared by Fabian, by Tiziana; >> whose Social Strike piece were at the from page of the last years' Digital >> Labour event, my confusion increased since these are most radical critics >> of enemy we face here! Same goes for the '..to our friends' comrades, who >> sits at board of 'Invisible Committee', to whom Wark refers critically >> again in his review of Inventing Future (see his: >> http://www.publicseminar.org/2015/06/no-futurism/) and the links they >> have to the Powerful, the %1 percent. As occupiers of Occupy Wall St. >> online accounts (Micah White took over the twitter account and Justin >> Tunney (trans gender anarchist tool over the OWS blog admin letter is hired >> by Google as 'software developer' and white founded his boutique >> revolution kickstart). Why all makes things become so fuzzy? >> Especially when realizing all these comrades and friends, somehow follow >> one or another version of Foucault-Deleuze-Laclau-Negri sort of radicalism, >> as those who are being linked to undertakings like transnational social >> strike.. One would normally can't stop thinking what all these mean? >> >> What it makes me feel though, assertively speaking, that roundabout power >> politics never help in avoiding the mistake Hilary was remixing. >> Especially for those being squeezed and oppressed all the time. However >> such politics has been extremely helpful to those swimming in wealth and >> patent rights, those emerging as new victors out of the intra-class >> struggle marking the current crises as, Wark was rightly indicating. So >> that complex restructure of global oppression system not only survive but >> evolve in something worse each time. >> >> I wonder, therefore, why can't we talk and act assertively, openly, and >> ethically correct way instead amongst the forces of resistance, and towards >> forces and beneficiaries of oppression? What makes it immensely difficult? >> While everybody knows that there is or will be any tool or form; be it >> 'platform', portal, coop, p2p, network, tech, automation, nor basic income, >> serving for emancipation if we do not transform our selves and our beings. >> >> Robin's story of the past, tells me that we are again providing enormous >> amount of smart and useful analysis to stupid, narsist, psychopathological >> ruling cadre that possess all the means to control and oppress. The below >> event is not my main point of target here. And I do not accuse anyone for >> choosing specific politics or strategy. >> >> But what is crystal clear is that the entire network and relationships, >> built between actors belong to resistances in nature and those from rulers >> including Harvard, MIT, Mellon, to publishers (like Semiotext working with >> MIT -invisible committee books distributed by), from expensive projects >> funded by EU and EC, Ford, Rockefellar, Google, Microsoft, so on as well as >> political alliances built under guidance of the Club of Rome, Club of >> Budapest, Month Pelerin Society, World Economic Forum, ect. ect.. There is >> a certain and definite repetition of the mistake Hilary Wainwright used to >> warn about. >> >> It is not my intention to judge or hurt others feelings, but at this >> moment I do look and hope for rising up of the naive, good, and independent >> working people for themselves, forming their own p2p relationships, >> platforms, events, institutions and alliances, that would never receive any >> project money in return of sensitive strategic tacit knowledge. Who are >> trusting themselves and each other in growing hope; instead of investing >> hope and giving their destiny to wrong hands, or offering in exchange >> feeing need of income. >> Who grasps that there are really, socially, genetically and culturally >> bed people out there mostly at the most top, who can not help (because of >> individual and structural reasons) to reverse and exploit our inventions, >> findings, and our tacit knowledge, for their horrible, selfish, childish >> and irresponsible interests. >> >> O. >> ......Platform Cooperativism Introduction. http://platformcoop.net >> >> The seeds are being planted for a new kind of online economy. For all the >> wonders the Internet brings us, it is dominated by an economics of >> monopoly, extraction, and surveillance. Ordinary users retain little >> control over their personal data, and the digital workplace is creeping >> into every corner of workers’ lives. Online platforms often exploit and >> exacerbate existing inequalities in society, even while promising to be the >> great equalizers. Could the Internet be owned and governed differently? >> What if Uber drivers could set up their own platform, or if cities could >> control their own version of Airbnb? Can Silicon Alley do things more >> democratically than Silicon Valley? What are the prospects for platform >> cooperativism? >> >> On November 13 and 14, the New School in New York City will host a >> coming-out party for the cooperative Internet, built of platforms owned and >> governed by the people who rely on them. The program will include >> discussion sessions, screenings, monologues, legal hacks, workshops, and >> dialogues, as well as a showcase of projects, both conceptual and actual, >> under the purview of celebrity judges. We’ll learn from coders and worker >> cooperatives, scholars and designers. Together, we’ll put their lessons to >> work as we work toward usable apps and structural economic change. This is >> your chance to get on the ground floor of the next Internet, and to help >> make it a reality. >> >> Platform Cooperativism is convened by Trebor Scholz >> <http://twitter.com/trebors>(The New School) and Nathan Schneider >> <http://therowboat.com/> (University of Colorado Boulder). >> >> Further reading: >> >> - Trebor Scholz, “Platform Cooperativism vs. the Sharing Economy >> <http://tinyurl.com/oj8rna2>” (December 5, 2014) and ”Think Outside >> the Boss >> >> <http://www.publicseminar.org/2015/04/think-outside-the-boss/#.VUoVZEuhIds> >> ,” *Public Seminar (April 5, 2015)* >> - Nathan Schneider, “Owning Is the New Sharing >> <http://www.shareable.net/blog/owning-is-the-new-sharing>,” >> *Shareable* (December 21, 2014) >> - Janelle Orsi, Frank Pasquale, Nathan Schneider, Pia Mancini, Trebor >> Scholz, “5 Ways to Take Back Tech >> <http://www.thenation.com/article/5-ways-take-back-tech/>,” *The >> Nation* (May 27, 2015) >> - Nathan Schneider, “Owning What We Share >> >> <http://www.psmag.com/business-economics/the-future-of-work-owning-what-we-share> >> ,” *Pacific Standard *(September 1, 2015) >> >> Sponsors & Partners >> >> Platform Cooperativism is sponsored by Eugene Lang College The New School >> for Liberal Arts, The Ford Foundation, The Freelancers Union, The New >> School University Student Senate, The Workers Lab, IG Metal, Institute for >> the Future, Demand Progress, Internet and Society, The Robert L. >> Heilbronner Center for Capitalism Studies, the University of Colorado >> Boulder, Democracy at Work Institute, The Digital Humanities Minor at The >> New School, The Lang Student Senate, and The Rosa Luxemburg Foundation NYC. >> >> The event is presented in partnership with Carnegie Mellon School of >> Design, Civic Hall, Democracy Collaborative, Green Worker Cooperatives, The >> Murphy Institute for Worker Education and Labor Studies at CUNY, the New >> Economy Coalition, The Robin Hood Foundation, Shareable, The United States >> Federation of Worker Cooperatives, Ver.di, The Working World, The Laura >> Flanders Show, and The Yale Information Society Project. >> >> This is the fourth event in The New School’s series The Politics of >> Digital Culture, which included The Internet as Playground & Factory >> <http://digitallabor.org/2009> (2009) and Digital Labor >> <http://digitallabor.org/> (2014), among other conferences. There will >> be two additional summits in this series, following up on these themes, in >> 2016. >> >> Twitter: @platformcoop #platformcoop >> >> >> >> On 7 nov. 2015, at 12:52, Anna Harris <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Thank you for this Peter. Extremely interesting analysis of past and >> future economic trends. In passing it answers Orsan's point about positive >> and hope being in the 'non-automatable part of life and human'. >> >> 'They always looked to see if knowledge could be codified, yet knew that >> you had to have tacit knowledge to apply and customise the codification. >> That tacit knowledge might itself be codified. but that too needs further >> tacit knowledge. and so on. It was a constant movement of codification plus >> the tacit, never the eradication of the tacit. The moment you lose the >> tacit, living labour, the codification atrophies.' (p13) >> In other words the two functions are not opposed to each other, but are >> complementary. The key is whether they are used to exploit by extracting >> a profit, or to benefit society. >> >> Anna >> >> On 6 Nov 2015, at 14:03, Peter Waterman <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> <nf8485_murray_gilbert_goffey.pdf> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NetworkedLabour mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NetworkedLabour mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NetworkedLabour mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour >> >> > > > -- > Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: > http://commonstransition.org > > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net > > <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens > > #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ > > -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
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