On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 10:13:35AM +0200, Andrew Beekhof wrote: > On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Dejan Muhamedagic <deja...@fastmail.fm> > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 03:59:49PM +0200, Andrew Beekhof wrote: > >> On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Dejan Muhamedagic <deja...@fastmail.fm> > >> wrote: > >> > Hi, > >> > > >> > On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 08:42:06AM -0400, Eliot Gable wrote: > >> >> http://clusterlabs.org/wiki/Documentation > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> First, read this (probably ten times or so, since it won???t make > >> >> complete sense and you will miss various details the first couple of > >> >> times): > >> >> > >> >> http://clusterlabs.org/mediawiki/images/f/fb/Configuration_Explained.pdf > >> >> > >> >> Then, if you want to use the CLI, read this: > >> >> > >> >> http://clusterlabs.org/mediawiki/images/8/8d/Crm_cli.pdf > >> >> > >> >> Or check out any other links on that main documentation site. > >> >> > >> >> I strongly recommend you start out learning with the XML CIB > >> >> and then, if you want, move to the CLI. Everything makes much > >> >> more sense if you understand the XML stuff. > >> > > >> > I'll disagree here. The crm shell is there to let the vast > >> > majority of people start working with Pacemaker without having to > >> > read XML. And then also enable most of them never to think about > >> > XML. crm should be able to represent all cluster configurations > >> > without the XML scaffolding (and you won't miss much, it is > >> > horrible anyway). > >> > >> oi! :-) > >> its much better than it was in 0.6
BTW, don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about the CIB design, but about the XML's general properties :) > >> > In short, what would one gain by reading XML > >> > instead of the stripped crm representation? > >> > > >> > >> Without question the crm shell is the best tool for changing the > >> configuration. > >> > >> I still find the stripped representation harder to read though - I > >> seem to have trouble finding and focusing on the bits i'm interested > >> in at the time. ?But I've been starring at the full form for over 5 > >> years now, so that may not be surprising :-) > > > > So, which part do you miss? :) Seriously, perhaps formatting > > could be improved or something. I'm always listening. And, > > frankly, I don't like the crm representation that much either, > > but couldn't think of any better way at the time. Still, what it > > makes it great for me is that I don't have to stare like a sheep > > at XML, it always gives me headache. > > I was thinking about this some more... I think I finally figured out > the problem and possibly what to do about it. > (Although I just checked the latest crm output, and it looks like > you've already made some nice improvements). > > The XML is usually read in "formatted" form, in that its indented. > The indenting helps to group elements so that one can focus on just > what is currently interesting - just the params, or ops, or whatever. > > What I think is missing from the syntax is visual differentiation of > the shell's keywords (op, params, location, etc..). > Originally I thought of using color or a bold font (like most prompts > use), but that requires special characters and every shell does it > differently. So ultimately that seems to cause more problems than it > solves. It could be a user preference setting or a command line option. This is not a bad idea. Though it would break reusing the output (i.e. parsing it again). So, perhaps a command line option is better. > How about displaying the keywords in ALLCAPS though? > Something like: > > PRIMITIVE FencingChild stonith:external/ssh \ > PARAMS hostlist="c001n01 c001n02 c001n03 c001n04 c001n05 c001n06 > c001n07 c001n08" livedangerously="yes" \ > OP monitor interval="120s" timeout="300" \ > OP start interval="0" timeout="180s" \ > OP stop interval="0" timeout="180s" > > It wasn't bad to begin with, but it feels nicer now and is more > readable when it appears as a single line (which I also come across). > > PRIMITIVE FencingChild stonith:external/ssh PARAMS hostlist="c001n01 > ... c001n08" livedangerously="yes" OP monitor interval="120s" > timeout="300" OP start interval="0" timeout="180s" OP stop > interval="0" timeout="180s" > > Thoughts? Yes, this looks like an improvement too. Once in a while I'd come across a really huge configuration and indeed it was rather unreadable. Though people shouldn't really be making such big setups anyway ;-) > Would that be hard to implement? No, I don't think so. > On the parsing side, I guess it would "just" be a matter of doing the > python equivalent of strcasecmp(). Yes. I think that there's already a basic filtering utility, but still unused. Another option would be to implement an alternative parser. Something like named.conf (C like). That one looks more pleasing to me, but I may be biased ;-) Thanks, Dejan _______________________________________________ Pacemaker mailing list Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker
