On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Lars Marowsky-Bree <l...@suse.com> wrote: > On 2012-06-05T09:43:09, Andrew Beekhof <and...@beekhof.net> wrote: > > Hi Andrew, > >> > (When we're talking about Pacemaker (versus the crm), it is obvious that >> > that wasn't really a technology-driven move.) >> With the implication being that technology-driven moves are bad? >> How do you explain HAWK then? Shouldn't Tim have written a patch to >> py-gui instead? > > The python-UI was an entirely different architecture to hawk.
Apparently PCS (GUI and cli) can or will make REST calls to setup/query/control machines from outside the cluster. The last time I looked, the shell wasn't intended to operate remotely. Just that and skipping the bi-directional XML translation already make both pretty different beasts under the covers. How you'd non-trivially achieve both in a single project would be interesting to see. > That's not > even apples to oranges, that's apples to a horse ;-) We *did* worry a > bit between hawk and looking at drbd-mc though, but even there (the > reasonably heavy-weight java client and the implications of it) the > architecture was significantly different. > > Obviously, not all technology-driven moves are bad. > > And I think the elephant in the room that we're all too polite to > mention here is that technology probably only accounts for about half of > the rationale. Since Chris was the one most affected, he also did the evaluation and made the decision. No elephants here. > >> > Of course. Still, people will ask "which one should I choose", and we >> > need to be able to answer that. >> >> The same way the Linux community has answers for: >> - sh/bash/tsch/zsh/dash... >> - gnome/kde/enlightnment/twm/fvwm... >> - fedora/opensuse/debian/ubuntu/leaf... >> - mysql/postgres/oracle/sybase >> - ext2,3,4/reiserfs/btrfs... >> - GFS2/OCFS2 >> - dm_replicator/drbd >> - selinux/apparmor >> - iscsi clients >> - chat/irc/email clients >> - programming languages >> - editors >> - pacemaker GUIs >> >> Linux is hardly a bastion of "there can be only one", so I find the >> level of doom people are expressing over a new cli to be disingenuous. > > Don't get me started. There's quite a few examples in your list where > I'd be more than willing to ask "Why, pray tell, WHY" too. ;-) (Just > look at the cost we pay for something as trivial as slightly > incompatible Unix shells in the resource agents ...) There is always a > cost to choice, which is why it is a very valid question to ask if we > need the choice, and what we gain from it. > >> Every argument made so far applies equally to HAWK and the Linbit GUI, >> yet there was no outcry when they were announced. > > No, like I said above, that did suck - but the architecture truly is > different and drbd-mc just wasn't the right answer for customers who > wanted a HTML-only frontend. Besides, this is not an outcry. An outcry > is revoking people's mailing list privileges and posting angry blogs. > ;-) > >> It seems duplication is only bad to those that aren't responsible for it. > > No, it is actually only bad for people who are responsible for > maintaining it. So don't? Just copy any good ideas that come along. Assuming they're architecturally compatible. > > And there's always a balance to be struck between unification & > convergence and exploring new paths. I'm not even saying "Don't go > there!" (because I am perfectly well aware I can't stop anyone), I'm > still mostly working out how that new path differs from the existing > one. > >> Presumably you'll continue to advise SLES customers to use whatever >> you ship there. >> Doesn't seem too complex to me. > > You do know it isn't that simple. "But distro X does Y, we want that on > your's too!" "Why are you doing Z?" And of course there's the question > of *what to ship*, for which someone, somewhere needs to have a remotely > informed opinion ;-) > > > Regards, > Lars > > -- > Architect Storage/HA > SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, > HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) > "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes." -- Oscar Wilde > > > _______________________________________________ > Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org > http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker > > Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org > Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf > Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org _______________________________________________ Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org
