All,

Shortened Names:
- I agree with Dan that we should not have aliases for parameter names. We
should just decide on the short names
- I would only shorten the names that are highly repeated, such as those in
the Spectrum message, as Don suggested.

Compression:
- I agree we should just rely on standard HTTP compression and, as Dan
suggests:
   - “Recommended” for WS Databases, and optional for WS Clients.


On a separate note, HTTPS is required. Are the radio vendors concerned
about supporting that?

-vince


On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 8:02 AM, Harasty, Daniel J <[email protected]>wrote:

> All,
>
>
>
> While I don’t necessarily agree with all of Don’s reasons, I’m not opposed
> to us adopting some means to shorten the messages.
>
>
>
> Here’s my proposal:
>
> ·         If we want to consider “more concise” / “less wordy” tag names,
> fine by me.  We can shorten things like “powerDbmPerBw” to “power” or
> simply “db”.
>
> o   Sure, that makes the protocol a wee-bit less “human readable”.
> However, if it makes it more “machine friendly” ala Don’s view, that is
> probably acceptable.  After all: the human should be reading the spec…
>
> o   Note that shortening the longer tags that appear repeatedly (such as
> in the “spectra” list) will give us the most “bang for the buck” in this
> effort.
>
> ·         Let’s not mess around with **optional** “short form” tags.
>
> o   Either a tag is short or long; let’s not add complexity by creating
> something like aliases.
>
> ·         If we want to consider some actual compression, let’s not
> invent something new here.  I haven’t heard of any standardize way to
> compress JSON… but since HTTP is the presumptive transport, why not just
> rely on “standard” HTTP compression?
>
> o   See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_compression
>
> o   I would make support the spec stating this is “recommended” for WS
> Databases, and optional for WS Clients.
>
>
>
> Will actual compression help?  Turns out we’ve experimented a bit with
> this even before Don’s email, so here’s one data point: we found many of
> the AVAIL_SPECTRUM_RESP messages to be in the range of 17k characters.  A
> simple call to a zlib compression algorithm on that string typically
> shortened it to about 1k characters.  (This was specifically using the HTTP
> compression techniques, but I expect the compression rate to be similar.)
>
>
>
> Here’s my concern:
>
> ·         If memory management is an issue in the radios, then don’t we
> actually make things WORSE by compression?  After all, if a 17k message is
> compressed down to 1k… then the TRANSPORT of the message is sped up… but
> the message now has to exist in the client’s memory – at least briefly – in
> BOTH the compressed and decompressed form.
>
>
>
> Just a quick viewpoint to consider:  In my opinion, at the heart of the
> matter, the desire of some participants is to make a VERY GENERAL message
> structure to AVAIL_SPECTRUM_RESP that will suit multiple use cases in
> multiple countries.  This is at odds with brevity, and therefore may be at
> odds with certain radio-implementation constraints.
>
> ·         For example, a given device which is only going to operate in
> the US gains nothing from this verbosity of our current generic structure.
> To wit, for US purposes, the whole SpectrumSchedule could be condensed to
> something a lot like this:
>
> avail_chans: {5: 4000, 12: 4000, 16: 100, 17: 100, 18: 100, 31: 40, 41: 40}
>
> representing that channels 5 and 12 are available at 4000mW, channels 16,
> 17, and 18 are available at 100mW, and channels 31 and 41 are available at
> 40mW.  This alone represents a savings of the majority of the 17k
> characters.  (Admittedly, the “time” aspect of the schedule would still
> need to be addressed.)
>
>
>
> Dan Harasty
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* paws [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *
> [email protected]
> *Sent:* Friday, December 06, 2013 5:26 PM
> *To:* [email protected]; [email protected]
> *Subject:* Re: [paws] Proposal to optionally support shortened message
> format
>
>
>
> You are asking for a json compression mechanism, for understandable
> reasons. I was actually surprised this issue did not come up earlier.
>
> We first need to have a discussion to see if there’s consensus for the
> need of a compression mechanism, and if yes, then see how do we get one in
> place.
>
> I did not find any json compression related work in ietf, but a quick
> search found few available algorithms. Do we have on this list JSON experts
> who could give some advice?
>
> Gabor
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* paws [mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>] *On
> Behalf Of *ext Don Joslyn
> *Sent:* Friday, December 06, 2013 11:15 AM
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* [paws] Proposal to optionally support shortened message format
>
>
>
> All,
>
>
>
> While working closely with a number of white space radio vendors that wish
> to support the PAWS protocol, some have expressed concerns with the size of
> paws messages, especially the size of an AVAIL_SPECTRUM_RESP message that
> supports Ofcom requirements and includes every channel. One issue raised is
> that when these messages are very large (in this case >14k bytes),
> requiring several MTU’s of packet data, their radio device does not have
> enough available RAM (or resources) to support the required packet
> buffering, especially when their device is being used as a master with
> several attached slaves. A second issue raised is the amount of traffic
> generated by these control messages, reducing the bandwidth available for
> user data traffic. The worst case is a master device supporting several
> slave devices where every device is required to periodically request a new
> channel list (and the periodic interval requirement seems to be getting
> smaller). Both issues are serious concerns for these radio vendors, and
> unless we do something to resolve it, they may not be able to support the
> paws protocol. A further concern for radio developers is energy expended
> per transmitted bit.  This is a major issue for battery powered devices.
>
>
>
> I would like to propose that we support an optional shortened message
> format, by creating a two-character alias for each defined parameter’s text
> name, without making any changes to message structure. We would be
> shortening the parameter text names, not the parameter data values. When a
> device sends a message to the database with shortened parameter names, the
> presence of shortened parameter names could serve as a trigger for the
> database to reply to the device using shortened parameter names in the
> reply message.
>
>
>
> This would be fairly easy to express in the current document by adding a
> paragraph to explain the support for shortened messages and adding a
> two-character alias in parenthesis next to each defined parameter name. I
> have attached an example to this email as a markup to page 40 of the
> version 7 draft.
>
> In the example, I have defined two-character aliases for several parameter
> names, and included a sample “spectrum” section that uses shortened
> parameter names.
>
>
>
> The sample uses the following aliases:
>
>
>
> “spectrum” = “sp”
>
> “resolutionBwHz” = “bw”
>
> “profiles” = “pf”
>
> “freqHz” = “hz”
>
> “powerDbmPerBw” = “pw”
>
>
>
> We could define the shortened parameter names and make support of
> shortened messages optional to allow database owners to decide if they want
> to support shortened messages or not.
>
>
>
> If there is support for this proposal, I would volunteer to update the
> version 7 draft to help move it forward.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Don
>
> _______________________________________________
> paws mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws
>
>


-- 
-vince
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