Greetings cde Mavela, I have given myself time to study and comprehend your contributions in this group and have responded precisely to points you have raised without insulting or undermining you. I have on the same breath raised my disappointments with your attitute and style of debate. I always try my level best to play the ball not the man,hence I always single out issues I disagree with and deal with them in an exhaustive manner. Having said so,but I believe we need to be frank with other even if we risk being misrepresented as being insultive,as party members we are like a family now, we should point to each other unacceptable behaviour to avoid embarrasment.
I am glad to learn that you are also not happy with the status quo in the party and you despise personality cult,I hope many who heroworship Mphahlele and Skwatsha would take leaf from you. I was also over the moon to realise that you are not anti-PAYCO or PAC. I have realised that we differ on the strategy and tacticts to redefine and save the PAC from anarchist. I just wish you can realise soon that Mphahlele is at the core of problems in the PAC,the sooner you come to terms with that reality the better. With due respect son of the soil, I have not seen any contribution that is insultive or embarrassing targeted to you. The comrades who have responded to you have expressed shock at the level of Hatred you have shown towards PAYCO and poor analysis of developments in the party. This is what I term robust debate. I know where you stand where PAYCO is concerned,but what is your stance on Mphahlele and the so called PACyl? Robust debate needs to be robust and not dirty hence I will discourage insults,especially to the other comrade. What makes a person a great debater is not how good you can insult the other party,but how you can pursue your point of view based on convincing facts to an extent that the person and those listening are persuaded to accept your point of view as factual. Your contributions continue to be appreciated and welcomed. Kwame Ndebele PAYCO Secretary General Visit.www.mayihlome.wordpress.com > Just read all my communique and you'll get my point. I am sorry for not > insulting you Sons of the Soil because I was not grown up by street > rappers > [?]. Mna I only want *PAC *to be free from personal scandals and political > gymnastics. I want to see *PAC* being a true vanguard of Azanian Masses . > I > will again say this without fear of being insulted *"I am for PAC not > Letlapa[?];** and I want to see PAC out of this problem which is been > hindering it from progress for sometime".* > > For the benefit of those who find fun in insulting me[?], continue as you > wish. > > I Pause > *"Agitator" Mavela*[?] > > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 11:55 AM, patra sindane <[email protected]> wrote: > >> MA'Afrika! >> >> I have serious problems with Cde Mavela's level of understanding let >> alone >> of debating. >> >> You see comrades, this list should be taken very serious as we can not >> afford to send people to expensive political classes. What is the point >> of >> struggling for free quality education while comrades like Mavela misuse >> the >> one we are offering now? >> >> Son of the soil,Azania will punish you for your ignorency. My appeal to >> comrades is that let us continue contributing to this list positively >> and >> hope that one day he will wake up and smell the coffee! >> >> Izwe Lethu! >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Mavela Mavela <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Greetings Fellow Africanist. >>> >>> I still maintain that we should try to salvage the PAC. Whatever you >>> say >>> is what I shared previously. Unfortunately people thinks that I am >>> against >>> Payco but one wonders why because I am totaly against our movement >>> state of >>> affair. I am for PAC. As for membership card issue, I think is been >>> exhausted. >>> >>> For Tsvangarai, I hope you were watching the news yesterday and have >>> listen to his statement as PM to Brown. >>> >>> I pause >>> *"Agitator" Mavela* >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 10:25 PM, sello mafrika Tladi >>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>> From: Jabu Makhanya <[email protected]> >>>> Date: Jun 22, 2009 1:52 PM >>>> Subject: Fw: mavela >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Forwarded Message ---- >>>> *From:* Jabu Makhanya <[email protected]> >>>> *To:* [email protected] >>>> *Sent:* Monday, June 22, 2009 1:47:40 PM >>>> *Subject:* mavela >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I'm not a member of PAYCO but I support their effort of rescuing the >>>> already sunk PAC. What I have noticed about your articles is that you >>>> seem >>>> to have a negative attitude towards PAYCO leadership and by that, you >>>> just >>>> wasting their precious time forgetting that they're not being paid for >>>> for >>>> embarking on a mission to save the PAC. What I have also realised from >>>> you >>>> is that you think you're a lover of PAC more than anybody else.Your >>>> arguments do not help salvage the PAC. The reverse gear you are >>>> talking >>>> about is nobody else but yourself. >>>> >>>> Being an ordinary member of the PAC myself, my hope is pinned in PAYCO >>>> as >>>> the only structure which can save the PAC. Talking with the PAC >>>> leadership >>>> is unfortunately an outdated approach because attempts to make Letlapa >>>> understand meaning of talks have failed in many occasions. For your >>>> own >>>> sake, Letlapa is currently not interested in any talks which will >>>> affect him >>>> and his cronies. I will encourage you to engage Letlapa about talks >>>> you are >>>> talking about and if he accepts, I will gladly request you to invite >>>> us to >>>> those talks. >>>> >>>> My branch has written several letters advising him about many issues >>>> about his leadership and he ignored us and the result is what you can >>>> observe today in the PAC provided you ability to observe if not you're >>>> unfortunate and I'll advise you to be patient and learn more >>>> particulary >>>> from PAYCO leadership. Furthermore, leaders come and go therefore we >>>> cannot >>>> compromise the future of the PAC at the expense of an individual. >>>> Letlapa >>>> is a messenger of the PAC memebers and not of his cronies. If you fail >>>> to >>>> adopt this principle, you cannot lead the PAC with dignity and you're >>>> doomed >>>> into a failure. >>>> >>>> To correct you, Morgan Tsangerai did not join the government of >>>> national >>>> unity to save Zimbabwe, Tsangerai did not in the first place supported >>>> the >>>> government of national unity. Tsangerai is a brainchild of Britain >>>> and >>>> America to distabilse Zanu-PF in a bid to recolonise Zimbabwe. >>>> Tsangerai >>>> was calling for sanctions against his own country, Zimbabwe because he >>>> knew >>>> that hungry Zimbwabeans wiil rebel against Zan-PF. Again.I'll will >>>> humbly >>>> request you to learn more about international affairs. >>>> >>>> If you are not prepared to appreciate what PAYCO leadership is trying >>>> to >>>> do, you have a right to shut up and remain a stooge of Letlapa. >>>> Lastly, you >>>> must know that any dogmatic mentality cannot withstand a revolutionary >>>> and >>>> visionary approach. >>>> >>>> >>>> Jabu >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Patrick "Patra" Sindane >> Radical Youth Network (RYN) >> South Africa >> Strategy & Politics >> Mobile: 073 052 7005 >> >> > >> > > > > ------------------------------------------- South Africas premier free email service - www.webmail.co.za ------------------------------------------------------------------ For super low premiums, click here http://home.webmail.co.za/dd.pwm --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Groups "Pan Africanist Youth Congress of Azania" group. 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