Greetings! Comrade I think it will be realy unfair of me to ignore the point you are raising. I agree with you on a question of subscribed and non subscribed comrades. Yes we all remain PAC members. I think we are realy creating a culture of not engaging by denying other comrades participation in the affairs of the party just because they are not in good standing. Let me please withdraw my utterances with regard to the legitimacy of one being a member of the party. By only allowing delegades in our conferences we are in transgretion of the party constitution. I think all of us should be given an opportunity to participate fully in the matters of the party as the constitution says.Most of us missed this point. I think we should revisit it and correct it. Thanks comrade for inlightening not only me but all who for some reason ignored this point.
Lets bring back the culture of PAC as we know. ________________________________ From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:35:28 AM Subject: [PAYCO] Re: Revised response to Mr Moloto Greetings, Sometimes I just cannot believe is the same PAC I joined that I am in,when I hear the levels of engagement,lack of reason and logic in the points of views advanced. I joined a PAC of intellectual towers,who engage on facts and logic,not mere speculation and excitement. You never cease to disappoint me with your poor understanding of PAC constitution, History,disciplinary code,tradition and general legal principles.Let me clear the issue again with you,and please reason logically with my points of view: 1. We all join PAC or any political party once and become members. A man who joined PAC in 1959 and the one who joined yesterday are all members of the PAC because they chose to join PAC not other parties. 2. Subscriptions are administrative and organisational. PAC survive mainly on subscription from its members hence we must pay our subscription yearly. The fact that you did not pay your subscription does not strip you your membership of the PAC,but it denies you certain rights and privileges,eg,you cannot elect leadership and you cannot be part of decision making at any level,but you can partake in party meetings, debates, workshops,campaigns,programmes and projects. Hence we talk of members in good standing and those who are not,the implication is that you remain a member but you have not met some of your constitutional obligations. 3. I thought it is common knowledge that when a member joins another party automatically forfeits his membership with the other party. Even if the person had just renewed his subscription with the party,he just cease to be a party member the day he chooses to join another party. I don't have to tell you whether Makwetu or Maxwell are PAC or not as this is clear as day light. I maintain my statement that a man who joined PAC in 1959 and the one who joined in 2008 are both PAC members,as long as they remain loyal to PAC and are not members of other political parties. 4. I gave the tale of my branch to give a tangible reality of the situation in terms of the membership and state of branches are concerned. This is because we have been accused of being non members and that we are arm-chair revolutionaries. I know that many comrades have been insulted as non members and arm-chair revolutionaries by people who don't know what is happening on the ground. I would always salute any person who choose to be a PAC member instead of any vibrant and booming political party where there are material benefits and lucrative career opportunities,becuase it takes courage and extra ordinary determination. I know the insults and embarrassments we endure in the communities we live in,but we remain committed and proud members of PAC. Some of us we are forcing to be members even if we are rejected by the party. I remember at one stage Bishop Toboti mentioned my name and Mmbara as non members in Ukhozi FM(widely listened radio station in KZN) when I arrived at work everybody was mocking me and asking me why I am not joining their parties because PAC does not want me,but I had to stomach that and march forward. 5. Your lame excuse that the problem of non issuing of membership cards is a PAC thing really annoys me,because it says the PAC is a party of failures and incompetent people who cannot process membership cards for less than 100 000 members,but wants to run Home Affairs and process birth certificates, ID's, travel Visas and passports for 46 million people,I reject this with contempt. When we elected Mphahlele as part of his mandate was to get the administrative and organisational sytems working not to complicate the situation and claim that things have always been like that. If the status quo remains it is enough evidence that Mphahlele and company have failed. 6. On the question of contribution I wanted to refute a nonsense that we are unable to pay R10 and want to embark on PAC issues,I just wanted to indicate to Africanist that infact we are even going an extra mile. I am aware that alsmost every member of the PAC has to sacrifice a lot of personal resources for the cause of the PAC and rather than receiving praise and encouragement they are insulted and declared enermy agents. I salute all PAC members who use their personal monies, cars,houses,phones and other material resources for the cause of the PAC. In the words of Sobukwe I say to you "Afrika will never forget you". It is unfortunate that those who have always gained out the PAC and succeeded through the PAC have shunned the party and some are hard at work destroying PAC. 7. Son of the soil I grew up in this movement and cannot be bullied or blackmailed by you or anyone in that matter. I know no other political party but PAC,PAC to me is home. I know that I am PAC,I stand for the original vision and mission of the PAC and cannot be changed or cornered to think otherwise. I am against Mphahlele and company as they stand against the party,if that's what you call being with us or against us,definately I am against anyone who is against PAC,anyone who promote factionalism,anyone who promotes divisions among party structure, anyone who urinates on the history of our party,anyone who mock the sacrifices of our fallen heroes,anyone who undermine the contributions of our people,anyone who dismembers our veterans and stalwarts and anyone who build a wedge between party members. I love PAC and serve only PAC. I would never serve any individual nor heroworship any individual,I reject promotion of personality cult. 8. What dynamics are you talking about that PAC members cannot understand,that must be explained by you to avoid confusion? Soon you should begin to understand and respect the intellect of PAC members. It is not a coincidence that they chose PAC not other parties,they understand PAC dynamics very well,hence they remain in the PAC despite and inspite of of the unnecessary shennanigans. Those who did not understand the dynamics and were confuse chose to leave the party. 9. There is one legitimate youth wing of the PAC that carries the revolutionary spirit of AZANYU and that is PAYCO. You should be ashamed of speaking in folk tounge,you preach unity among PAC youth but you support the creation of PAYCYL created to heroworship Mphahlele and to undermine PAYCO leadership,hence I believe you are a paper revolutionary. Revolutionaries are principled,they don't exist to please individuals but to serve only the cause,as the cause is bigger than all of us. Yours for a classless society Kwame Ndebele PAYCO Secretary General > Comrade Kwame > > I think is unreasonable of you to say that somebody who joined PAC in 1959 > is still a PAC member even if he/she does not pay subscription. Does this > apply to Makwetu, Maxwell, Tefo and the rest of others who at one stage joined this party. The constitution and code of conduct tells us that for > one to be a ligitimate member he/she has to pay his/her dues which of cause is a subscription fees. Paying of this subscription fees validate ones membership to the party. If you don't pay you are not a member period. I question your logic in that. With regard to membership cards I think a vast majority of PAC branches has the same problem, even in the times of President Makwetu,Mogoba and Motsoko Pheko's leadership. This is > a PAC problem and not an idividual problem. I myself do not have a membership card but I am able to produce proof to whoever that I am a PAC > member who is up to date with subscription fees. I also contribute monthly > R200 to PAC and make > other contribution to the branch and the region that I am from. I don't > see where the point you are making is taking us. > Another example is that I regret having been part of the branches around my region who boycoted the 2004 election because of the problem we had with Maxwell and the PAC. This led us to losing the provincial seet in Limpopo and we are still struggling to get one. So comrade there is no excuse. Lastly I will say in simplicity as the great founder of this organisation said about those who were not part of the revolution that those who are not with us are against us. So don't find your self in that > situation. > > I APPRICIATE YOUR CONTRIBUTION TO THIS ORGANISATION. PLEASE DON"T CONFUSE > THOSE WHO DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE DYNAMICS IN THIS ORGANISATION. > > Please stop your act now and become with us the habingious of the new world order. > > For a united PAC Youth formation. Long live the spirit of AZANYU > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 3:53:59 PM > Subject: [PAYCO] Revised response to Mr Moloto > > > > Revolutionary greetings, > > Mr Moloto, I want to take this opportunity and address some of the issues you made about PAYCO, party membership and party building. > > * Base and Departure > First and foremost what is key and critical is to accept and identify with > the PAC vision,its ideology,policies,objectives,constitution and its disciplinary code. As PAYCO members we identify and accept these fundamental and founding principles of our revolutionary party. To us PAC > is the Alpha and Omega in fighting neo-colonialism,capitalism and other forms of oppressive systems in Azania. PAC is the only party that can truly bring about complete independence of our people and lead them to economic,social and cultural emancipation,hence despite all the > differences we have with different people and inspite of the attacks and insults we have endured in the party we remain steadfast and never shunned > this movement. We believe it is our historical duty to advance the ideology,mission,and policies of the PAC. We are also duty bound to defend > the > glorious history of the movement and defend the legacy of our founding fathers and sacrifices of > Poqo/APLA cdes with our dear lifes and dignity. > > *members in good standing > I am certain that a majority of PAYCO members if not all are PAC members. > Every person who clain to be PAC is a matter of fact and reality that he/she has joined PAC at one stage,therefore allows that member all the rights to claim to be PAC. You join PAC or any political party once. The payment of yearly subscriptions is an administrative and organisational matter. A man who joined PAC in 1959 and the one who joined in 2008 are PAC members whether they payed their subscription or not. > > Let me remind you Mr Moloto,that PAC annual subscription fee is just R10. > You cannot believe the amount of money some of us we spend on monthly basis on PAC activities. I come from Newcastle Region,KwaZulu Natal,Branch > 21(ward21). I pay my subscriptions yearly and also contribute R100 monthly > to > finance branch activities.In 2007 My branch and 7 other branches in the region submitted their Membership forms and deposited money on party account to be issued party membership cards and never received even a single membership card. Branches in my region resolved to withhold all the > subscription fees in the branches concerned until we receive our cards for > 2007. In some instances we were forced to repay comrades from our pockets > as cards were not coming forth to avoid conflicts and mistrust to the party. I was told that mine was not to be processed as I was guilty of bringing the name of the party into disrepute,but why were my comrades denied their cards as well for my "sins". Despite being regarded unfit to > be PAC members Mphahlele and company were ready to receive our debit orders on monthly basis. We decided to cancel those monthly debit orders of R100 a month after seeing that our monies were being used to destroy the very party we wanted to assist. > > You know why PAC has always been able > to survive all the storms for the past 50years and why is still going to survive the next 50 years is because it has die-hard membership that cannot be wethered easily by any storm,secondly it is because it has been > able to attract radical youth,almost 80% of PAC members are young people,which makes the party sustainable. It is unfortunate that these die-hards and radical youth are being harrassed in the party they serve with > conviction. > > *Branch Mass-based Programme > The PAC is a mass based party, that means it must leave among the people,fight the battles of the people,together with the people it must find solututions to the challenges facing our people. Nyathi Pokela put it > better"PAC is the people,the People are PAC". The branches I come from in > Newcastle region have been involve and continue to be involve on a number > of struggles driven by our Regional Programme of Action. I would tabulate > some for your information: > > 1. We have led 3 land invasions which has led to the homeless people of our Town to be afforded residential sides,RDP houses,sanitation and clean > tap water. This campaign was led by PAYCO leaership in the Branch and gave > glory to the party,PAC. > > 2.We have been mobilizing and leading the local community of Madadeni and > Osizweni against exorbitant rates charged by council. > > 3.We have succeeded to force council not to charge the elderly and poor households rates. > > 4. We were party and playing a leading role in the establishment of the Local Radio Station. I was the first Chief Operations Officer for the Local Radio. PAC/PAYCO is able to articulate its views freely on that radio station. > > 5. We lead key structures in the Community like Newcastle East Peoples Convention(civic body) , Umsinsi Social movement(advocacy group for rural > people) and Madadeni Development Forum > > 6.We have organised and led about 6 marches in the area since 2006.I mean > marches that receive overwhelming support from the community. > > 7.We have been leading students struggles in High Schools and FET colleges.The following comrades have been hands on,Thulani > Khumalo,Nkosinathi Ndlangisa and Mzandile Mthembu. We have led > demonstrations and able to have our comrades lead SRC's in the 4 FET's we > have here. > > 8. We have been leading the struggle of the unemployed through NUFO a forum for the unemployed led by cde Batho Makhubo. > > 9. We have been able even to lead COSATU aligned unions like SAMWU and NUM. > > 10. We are involve in propaganda campaign through two organisations,Kwame > Nkrumah Institute for Pan Africa Ideological Studies led by Simanaye Madlala and Marcus Garvey Society led by Batho Makhubo. > > I can go on and on, on the the mass based issues we are involve in under the leadership of the following comrades,Vusumuzi Dlamini,Mphathiswa Dyasi,Tom Dladla,Vusi Manana,Velaphi Mtshali and Rogers Mthethwa. Ofcourse > as > the youth we have taken over and we are leading branches and structures under the guidance of these comrades. We don't just talk about mass based > politics and programme of action,we know these things and have been involve in planning,organising and executing successful campaigns and projects. With the benefit of hindsight sometime we realise the dangers and risks we have involve ourselves with for the love of our > people and PAC. It is unfortunate to realise that we stood a chance of being > arrested,shot at and worst to be disowned by the party we worked for with > conviction and distinction. I am certain different comrades and branches would tell even worst tales than the one I have given. We have > served,suffered and sacrificed for this party hence we remain steadfast. I > want to believe comrades would begin to understand how much pain we endure > everytime we are > told we are not PAC,we are CIA agents and insulted by those who have failed our revolutionary party. We assure you cdes that we would not be deterred nor bullied out of the PAC by no one. We might have not gone for > military training but we are ready to die in the PAC than outside PAC. > > *Infiltration and party building > > I will expand on this in detail in the comming few days > > Yours for a classless society > > cde Kwame Ndebele > PAYCO Secretary General > > >> Comrades there is one fundemental principle here that serve as the base and >> depature point.organisational discipline.are you a member of the pac in > good >> standinding?do you belong to an established branch of the party?does you > branch have a massbased programme?in the party building department of the >> party this is what we use to seek to understand indiviual comrades > trying >> to >> occupy a political space under the banner of the pac.this approach is > helping us to identify opportunists and genuine comrades with good intention.we must also acknolegde that our party was and is still is highly >> inflitrated and that some of the people are making their living for > disrupting and bringing the state of disorder in the pac.this people will >> never submit themselves to the party discipline or meet the above mentioned >> conditions.that is where everybody must start.in rebuilding the party we > help the party structures to meet this requirements.there are common features of agents,they come from no branch of the party.they respect no structure and want to lead any grouping which is unstructural,critical but >> does absolutetly nothing.i am sure you will learn something from this so >> as >> to identify your friends and your enemies.if the party enemy is your friend >> there is something wrong with you. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf > Of >> [email protected] >> Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 9:11 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: [Fwd: [PAYCO] BY - ELECTIONS IN GAUTENG PROVINCE (MOGALE CITY - > KRUGERSDORP) & Westonaria] >> Greetings comrade Masoga, >> I was pleased to see your contribution after a while,your love for PAC > and >> commitment in seeing the PAC making a significant impact in the lives of > our >> people is appreciated. The reconciliatory spirit of your contribution is > acknowleged as well. >> I wish to assure you son of the soil that as PAYCO we remain loyal only > to >> the PAC and our people,we serve no other master within the PAC and > outside >> the party. I accept that we have been very robust in debates and very > brutal >> in our attack to those who divide and promote factionalism in our > movement >> and offer no apologies for our actions as they were correct and founded > on >> revolutionary principles. >> Son of the soil like you we believe in unity,but ours is unity of > purpose. >> We would not be blackmailed or blindfolded by the calls for unity at the > expense of our party. We would not turn a blind eye on counter >> revolutionary >> activities just to be seen to be standing for unity. As comrades we > should >> be frank with each other and point wrong doing in an instance to avoid > colossal damage we find ourselves into today. >> If you are honest to yourself you will know that PAYCO has always been > on >> the defense,we have been labelled sell-outs,agents provocatears,agents > of >> Multinational companies,etc. We have remained steadfast on our > principles >> and always avoided insults. Where comrades interpreted certain positions >> as >> insults I have continously cautioned PAYCO members against such > behaviour. >> I >> think it is more revolutionary to identify the source of the problem and > deal with it. It is not PAYCO that is suspending branches,Component structures and councillors without proper disciplinary processes being adhered to.It is not PAYCO that is dimembering party stalwarts,veterans and >> former leaders. It is not PAYCO that insult the contributions of our former >> leaders and party fighters in the media. It is not PAYCO that is > creating >> parrallel structures. It is not PAYCO that is praising Zuma. It is not > PAYCO >> that is promoting factions and disunity in the party. It is not PAYCO > that >> promotes personality cults in the party. >> Thanx son of the soil, >> Hoping to see you in the upcoming PAYCO Congress. >> Yours for a classless society >> Kwame Ndebele >> PAYCO Secretary General >> ---------------------------- Original Message > ---------------------------- >> Subject: [PAYCO] BY - ELECTIONS IN GAUTENG PROVINCE (MOGALE CITY - > KRUGERSDORP) & Westonaria >> From: "Jack masoga" <[email protected]> >> Date: Fri, October 9, 2009 21:22 >> To: [email protected] >> Cc: "PAYCO Azania" <[email protected]> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Revolutionary Greetings Majoni >> I always read about WHO is WHO on this platform, people think that they are >> better than others. I was invited to PAYCO Congress to be held at > Nothern >> Cape which started tonight. >> However I want to challenge the Youth in the Pan Africanist Congress of > Azania to wake up and implement IOTA by contesting the two Wards which are >> up for taking. >> I took stock of work that was done by PAYCO around Khutsong and nearby > areas >> which is West Rand. I hope Comrade Nonceba Mbilini, Bafana Mthimkhulu, > Lazim >> Mokoena will ensure that PAC under their Leadership in the West Rand > will >> win those Wards so that we speak in the position of Power. >> Please MaAfrika stop calling Africansits Sell- out, Agents of > Imperilism, >> Yes Man of Whoever, Capitalist, instead concentrate on the 1st aim of > the >> PAC which is "to rally and unite the African People under the banner of > African Nationalism" How do your expect to rally and unite African people >> if >> you "Africanists call each other names" what a shame MaAfrika. >> I remain Cal Zimbiri >> 0731822656 >> (012) 323 9905 (O) >> ----------------------------------------- >> This email was sent using SquirrelMail. >> "Webmail for nuts!" >> http://squirrelmail.org/ >> > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > This email was sent using SquirrelMail. > "Webmail for nuts!" > http://squirrelmail.org/ > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > This email was sent using SquirrelMail. > "Webmail for nuts!" > http://squirrelmail.org/ > > > > ----------------------------------------- > This email was sent using SquirrelMail. > "Webmail for nuts!" > http://squirrelmail.org/ > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ South Africa's premier free email service - www.webmail.co.za ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ For super low premiums, click here http://home.webmail.co.za/dd.pwm --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Sending your posting to [email protected] Unsubscribe by sending an email to [email protected] You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
