Izwe Lethu!!! Great analysis Justice, I hope it would make sense and educate the empty vessels that claim to lead PAC when they don't know even the very basic documents of the party. Let's remind Moloto and his clique, that constitution is not only the founding and political document of the party, it is also the legal document that regulates relations between party members, structures and party's relation with the outside world. It allocates powers, duties and stipulate limitations. It determines who should be a member and who should not. Even Courts of law when they are called to make a determination on PAC affairs they primarily base their findings and judgement on PAC Constitution, hence there should be clear and democratic process in amending or changing party constitution.
To this very day people who challenge the Cape High Court Judgement are basing it on their ignorance of PAC Constitution, Traditions and norms, resistance to learn general law and resistance to think outside their factionalist tendencies. There is no court that would use external instruments to determine PAC internal affairs, the Judge arrived to that judgement having examined PAC Constitution, PAC Constitutional development process, PAC traditions and PAC norms and customs(read the judgement carefully to comprehend this simple fact of law). PAC constitution is developed by party structures through proposing amendments(not wholesale changes), refined by party legal minds and ratified and adopted by Congress, not the Fort Hare nonsense. I just hope people can think before they write rubbish on this platform. This platform was created to inform,educate, politicise and promote pan africanist and socialist ideals. We need people who would engage on informed position not hearsayings they hear from their disoriented leaders. Some of us spend time studying extensively political development, law, constitutional development, interpretation of statutes and ideologies of world politics, really cannot accept to be represented by people who struggle to read newspapers(only page through pictures and focus on sport pages). We are a product of great political thinkers and philosophers, lets jealously defend this legacy from illiterates and fly-by-night politicians, we owe it to Sobukwe, Lembede, Mda, Mothopeng Raboroko,Sibeko and many other PAC ideologeus. Thanks again Justice, this is what we call robust debate. Izwe Lethu!! Kwame Ndebele > Check the 2001 constitution maybe you might be missing something, you > need to workshop yourself on the party documents. By saying Organisation > it can mean any organisation unless you explain further in the > constitution that it does not refer to political organisation. PLEASE > CHECK THE BELOW AND ANSWER MY QUESTION MATURELY. It seems like you > don't refer to party documents when you speak and that is wrong. > > > > This was my question > > > > Comrade Moloto > > The Pac constitution of 2008 states the following on membership: so does > this encourage people to have dual membership? See point 3113. IS PAM > POLICY CONSISTENT WITH PAC POLICY? WILL PA MEMBERS BE ALLOWED TO JOIN > PAC WHILE THEY HOLD MEMBERSHIP IN PAM? JUST WONDERING > > 3. MEMBERSHIP > > 3.1 Qualification > > 3.1.1 Membership shall be open to any African who: > > 3.1.1.1 accepts the principles, programme and > discipline of the PAC; > 3.1.1.2 is of the age of 15 years or above; > 3.1.1.3 is a member of any organisation whose policy > is consistent with that of the PAC. The National Executive Committee > (NEC) or the Annual National Conference/National Congress shall > determine whether a certain organisation is consistent with the cause of > the PAC or not. > > Hope i will get a fair and honest answer. > > > > > > FROM 2000 CONSTITUTION > > > > 3. MEMBERSHIP > > 3.1 Any South African who accepts the principles, programme and > discipline of the PC shall be eligible for membership, provided that: > 3.2 He/She is not a member of any political organization. > 3.3 In case where is doubt whether a particular applicant for membership > is so eligible, such an applicant shall be forwarded by the Branch > Executive to the NEC with the reasons for doubt, before the applicant is > accepted or rejected. Once the NEC is satisfied that such an applicant > is eligible for membership, the NEC shall issue such applicant, upon > payment of the prescribed enrolment fee, a membership card after which > the applicant shall b regarded as a member of the PAC. > > 3.4 All members shall be supplied with membership cards > > > > FROM 1996 CONSTITUTION > > > > 3. MEMBERSHIP > > 3.1 Any African who accepts the principles, programme > and discipline of the PAC shall be eligible for membership, provided > that: > > 3.1.1 he/she is not less than 16 years of age; > 3.1.2 he/she is not a member of any political organization > whose policies are inconsistent with that of that PAC; > 3.1.3 the NEC shall from time to time determine whether a > particular organisation's policy is inconsistent with that of that PAC; > 3.1.4 in a case where there is doubt whether a particular > applicant for membership is eligible, such an application shall be > forwarded by the Branch Executive Committee to the NEC, together with > reasons for doubt, before the application is accepted or rejected. Once > the NEC is satisfied that such applicant, upon payment of the prescribed > enrolment fee, a membership card after which the applicant shall b > regarded as a member of the PAC. > > 3.2 Applicant for membership shall be supplied with > membership card. > > FROM 1992 CONSTITUTION > > 3. MEMBERSHIP > > 3.1 Any African who accepts the principles, programme > and discipline of the PAC shall be eligible for membership, provided > that: > 3.1.1 he/she is not less than 16 years of age; > 3.1.2 he/she is not a member of any political organization > whose policies are inconsistent with that of that PAC; > 3.1.3 the NEC shall from time to time determine whether a > particular organisation's policy is inconsistent with that of that PAC; > 3.1.4 in a case where there is doubt whether a particular > applicant for membership is eligible, such an application shall be > forwarded by the Branch Executive Committee to the NEC, together with > reasons for doubt, before the application is accepted or rejected. Once > the NEC is satisfied that such applicant, upon payment of the prescribed > enrolment fee, a membership card after which the applicant shall b > regarded as a member of the PAC. > > 3.2 Applicant for membership shall be supplied with > membership card. > > FROM 1959 CONTITUTION > > > > > > 3. MEMBERSHIP > > (a) Any African who is of the age of 16 years or above and accepts > the principles, programme and discipline of the P.A.C shall be eligible > for membership, provided that: > > (i) He/She is not a member of any political organization whose > policy is inconsistent with that of the P.AC. > > (ii) The National Executive Committee shall from time to time > determine whether a certain organisation is inconsistent with the cause > of the P.A.C. > > (iii) In doubtful cases applications shall be forwarded by the > Local Executive, together with the reasons for doubt, before the > application is accepted or rejected. Then and only then shall the NEC > issue such an applicant, upon payment of the enrolment fee, a membership > card after which the applicant shall be regarded as a member of the PAC. > > > (b) Application for membership shall be normally made on duly > prescribed forms which shall be completed by the applicant and forwarded > for consideration by the National Executive Committee. > > (c) Each individual member of the P.AC shall pay a subscription fee > of 2/6 per annum. > (d) On enrolment each member shall be supplied with a membership card. > > > > > > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf > Of Narius Moloto > Sent: 17 June 2010 09:21 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: [PAYCO] Re: KA-PLAATJIE JOINS ANC > > > > Justice that clause does not refer to political organisations.that > clause has always been there. > > > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf > Of justice > Sent: 15 June 2010 04:53 PM > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: RE: [PAYCO] Re: KA-PLAATJIE JOINS ANC > > > > Comrade Moloto > > The Pac constitution of 2008 states the following on membership: so does > this encourage people to have dual membership? See point 3113. IS PAM > POLICY CONSISTENT WITH PAC POLICY? WILL PA MEMBERS BE ALLOWED TO JOIN > PAC WHILE THEY HOLD MEMBERSHIP IN PAM? JUST WONDERING > > 3. MEMBERSHIP > > 3.1 Qualification > > 3.1.1 Membership shall be open to any African who: > > 3.1.1.1 accepts the principles, programme and > discipline of the PAC; > 3.1.1.2 is of the age of 15 years or above; > 3.1.1.3 is a member of any organisation whose policy > is consistent with that of the PAC. The National Executive Committee > (NEC) or the Annual National Conference/National Congress shall > determine whether a certain organisation is consistent with the cause of > the PAC or not. > > Hope i will get a fair and honest answer. > > > > > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf > Of Narius Moloto > Sent: 07 June 2010 02:07 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: [PAYCO] Re: KA-PLAATJIE JOINS ANC > > > > Chargein mabaso. > > Would you like to come back the pac?i do have an application form > waiting for you.but you must resign from pam first. > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf > Of Chargein Mabaso > Sent: 04 June 2010 04:26 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Re: KA-PLAATJIE JOINS ANC > > > > Cde Narius > > > > Evertime I read your contribution in this group makes me wonder what are > your intentions. I sometimes wonder what makes so adamant about your > wrong positions. Where are you paying your allegiance to? To the PAC you > claim to be loyal to or to Letlapa, ...? You sound like a factionalist > yorself. > > > > I challenge you, cde Narius, to respond directly to me now. Stop acting > like some one with authority on issues on this group. Your utterances do > not build even the Party you are claimimg to be loyal to. It is people > like you who have cause serious divisions in PAC. When there is problem, > they say there is none. > > > > I challenge you. Letlapa is 80 - 90% to be blame for the current mess in > PAC. Please disprove my hypothesis with facts. > > > > In your response, do not take this engagement to be personal. Be > objective. Every point must be backed with facts. Educate the rest of > the member why you are not a factionalist by nature. I will show you why > I believe you are a factionalist. Use my case why I left PAC and formed > PAM in your input. Show the rest why do you think we were wrong and we > are just a group of factionalists who are doomed to fail as you claim. I > will respond back to you accordingly, man to man. I want us to be brutal > frank to each other. Live nothing to back your case. Do not nurse my > feelings I have a thick skin. Throw whatever punch you might have I will > take it as it comes as a man. Bear in mind, we are not fighting, but > teaching each other a lesson. I am not a liberal. I dont believe we must > keep quiet for the sake of peace when things are bad. > > > > I am sick and tired of you stance, son of the soil while you are > destructive. This authority that you have, where do you get it, son of > the soil? > > > > Charge-in Mabaso (Oo-MCharge) > > PAM Deputy President > > > > > On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 8:38 AM, Narius Moloto <[email protected]> wrote: > > I agree with you.thami did the right thing,his mission in the pac was > accomplished and he went back home and he is happy to be home.those who > believe in him will follow him.it <http://him.it/> is time to evaluate > everyone who was ever in the party leadership at some stage,the role > they played then and what happened after they were voted out of those > positions.where are they now and what are their relationship with the > party they once led.that should give you an idea as to what went > wrong.all leaders who did not come through the branches and party > structures disappeares after their terms of office and have nothing to > do with the party.when they appear is when some members of a faction > pulls them in for a factional interest.that bring us to the question of > wether it is a right thing to recircle leadership.its is my opinion that > leadership of the party is a serious matter,that when you are given an > opportunity to lead the party you must make good use of the > opportunity.once it leaves it is gone,you may serve the party in some > sort of capacity and supportive role.leadership cannot be recircled it > is dangerous thing to do. > > > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf > Of [email protected] > Sent: 02 June 2010 01:42 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Re: KA-PLAATJIE JOINS ANC > > > > > This is not something to be disappointed about. He did not walk the talk > when he was Secretary for Education in Gauteng, shortsighted comrades > parachuted him to Secretary General, and he did not walk the talk, > founded his own party with Cde Tefo and could not organise a branch. > This reflects on all of us who claim to be PAC. > > > > > Ali Khangela Hlongwane > Chief Curator: MuseuMAfricA > > 121 Bree Street > Newtown > 2001 > > Box 517 > Newtown > Tel:(011) 833 5624 > Fax:(011)833 5636 > Cell: 082 4639869 > [email protected] > www.joburg.org.za <http://www.joburg.org.za/> > (This letter was sent electronically and is therefore not signed) > > Sembene <[email protected]> > Sent by: [email protected] > > 06/02/2010 12:48 PM > Please respond to payco > > > To: Pan Africanist Youth Congress > <[email protected]> > cc: > Subject: [PAYCO] Re: KA-PLAATJIE JOINS ANC > > > > > Comrades. > > I have been a follower of the said man's political life and can > confirm that I am disappointed on him as both a man and a parent. The > least said about this subject the better comrades believe me. > > Regards > > -- > Sending your posting to [email protected] > > Unsubscribe by sending an email to [email protected] > > You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco > > Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com > <http://www.mayihlome.wordpress.com/> > > ________________________________ > > The contents of this e-mail and any attachments are confidential. It is > intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you have received this > email > in error please notify the system manager or the sender immediately and > do > not disclose the contents to any one or make copies. > > Please note that the recipient must scan this e-mail and any attached > files > for viruses and the like. While we do everything possible to > protect > information from viruses,the City of Johannesburg accepts no liability > of > whatever nature for any loss, liability,damage or expense resulting > directly > or indirectly from the access and/or downloading of any files which are > attached > to this e-mail message. > > ________________________________ > > -- > Sending your posting to [email protected] > > Unsubscribe by sending an email to [email protected] > > You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco > > Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com > <http://www.mayihlome.wordpress.com/> > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/> > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2911 - Release Date: 06/01/10 > 20:25:00 > > -- > Sending your posting to [email protected] > > Unsubscribe by sending an email to [email protected] > > You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco > > Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com > <http://www.mayihlome.wordpress.com/> > > > > -- > Sending your posting to [email protected] > > Unsubscribe by sending an email to [email protected] > > You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco > > Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2916 - Release Date: 06/03/10 > 20:25:00 > > -- > Sending your posting to [email protected] > > Unsubscribe by sending an email to [email protected] > > You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco > > Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2922 - Release Date: 06/06/10 > 18:35:00 > > -- > Sending your posting to [email protected] > > Unsubscribe by sending an email to [email protected] > > You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco > > Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2938 - Release Date: 06/14/10 > 20:35:00 > > -- > Sending your posting to [email protected] > > Unsubscribe by sending an email to [email protected] > > You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco > > Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2939 - Release Date: 06/15/10 > 06:35:00 > > -- > Sending your posting to [email protected] > > Unsubscribe by sending an email to [email protected] > > You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco > > Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ South Africa's premier free email service - www.webmail.co.za ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ For super low premiums, click here http://home.webmail.co.za/dd.pwm -- Sending your posting to [email protected] Unsubscribe by sending an email to [email protected] You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com
