Cde. Raymond I think it is order that you clarify the situation surrounding Cde Moloto. In the first place when an NEC of PAC is divided how will it function and at the same time did those people put at leadership helm at Butterworth never learned the past mistakes and errors committed by the prior NEC'S. If they did not learn from the past then we clearly had wrong people to lead us. One leader was relating to me that amongst other reasons they suspended is because offices were closed and accounts were freezed. Without wasting time I went for him explaining that if that was the rational then he should not have allowed to be in the leadership because the party cannot be dragged into this mess over those 2 issues. Then few months down the line we saw a lot of chaos wherein parallels were created with the blessings of the SG in particular and we cannot hide those facts. When the leadership disrespect its membership and structures the same will happen to them. Now we are expected to listen to one side which proclaim itself to be the right NEC and that itself constituted a serious immaturity from such NEC leaders. Some of the best leaders who resigned from the party no matter how strong and effective they were did so in the interest of the party. But someone who is an outright failure see no reason to humble himself to his fellow comrades and put the party unity interest first. We are being lectured that Moloto is an SG for now and yes we know but we gain nothing as a party out of that statement. Cde Moloto write letters to structures saying Letlapa is expelled and remain so. For sure in his own interest he is right but for us he too is expelled twice by the NEC led by Cde Letlapa and now late by his own leader Mphethi. He blames the courts but he himself went to court on the 17th May 2013 to interdict the May 18 2013 NEC meeting and he even went further to call structures proudly saying they have secured an interdict against Cde Letlapa to hold a meeting on the 18th May 2013. On June 14 2013 he lost the case before Judge Kgomo and he appealed the court outcome. If he was a true leader he should have known by that time that courts wont solve our problems and respect the court outcome. My only problem with cdes like Kutie is that when there was a clear leadership problem at the NEC they went on to be coopted by Moloto at expense of the party and other elected NEC members. One Cde from Vaal indicated to me more than R 1000 000.00 amount of money have been spend by cde Narius to stop rule 49 and secure the appeal. I am told only on the 7th March 2014 Cde Narius/their NEC spend R 500 000.00 on that court case alone which took only 3 hours. It is these kind of things that make one to be unhappy about the behaviour of other NEC members and the state of the party. Anyway the party is so paralysed and we have no reason spare people we think are behind these problems but one thing we cant individualise the party problems. In the absence of a programme anything is everything and of course at the demise of the party
On Thursday, September 4, 2014 1:19 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi <nrkgag...@gmail.com> wrote: M’Afrika I fully agree with M’Afrika Kutie the enemies of PAC are more happier given the rate of disintegration of PAC. This disintegration must be arrested late as it might be! At a principled level, I disagree with the notion that PAC branches and members are fighting Cde Moloto for such a notion create an illusion that all is well in the PAC. Constitutionally PAC NEC has disintegrated and cannot execute any constitutional roles without being questioned, there are three NEC groupings claiming legitimacy. As PAC we are facing parallel structures across the country including in APLAMVA and PAYCO! PAC NEC elected at Butterworth Congress in July 2012 no longer constitutes a quorum for it has split into three unequal and non-quorating parts! According to e-mails and letters we saw since 11 May 2013, Cde Letlapa has been suspended and expelled, Cde Moloto has been suspended and expelled (By Cde Letlapa and now recently by acting President Mpethi), and allegedly Cde Mpethi has also being suspended! There are other NEC members equally suspended. So comrades in the NEC have resorted to suspending and expelling each other, while refusing to account to PAC branches and members at an inclusive national conference. There is no attack on the party’s annual conference but an attack to factional feuding and weakening of the PAC! This feuding which weakens the PAC must be arrested, and only an inclusive national conference can take the PAC towards a lasting political and organisational solution. Shango lashu Nkrumah From:payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] Sent: 04 September 2014 12:42 PM To: Kutie Thondlana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za Cc: mrfihla08; payco@googlegroups.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; ad...@pac.org.za; wgaj...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; smollzo...@gmail.com; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; L Lekgwathi; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala Bauba; nnyq...@gmail.com; m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac.org.za; mnd...@yahoo.com; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Cde Kutie It is simple the enemies of the PAC are simply those who are using members for their individual purposes and to some extend in the interest of the people they serve out there. Let me assure you pretending there is no need to have an elected NEC organising a conference and rather preferring an individual to do so and who think he is everything can only be accepted by you and others. Leaders who grew in this party and with long service should have known by now that whatever they trying to in May 11 last will catch up with them and those who thought they will benefit out of that fiasco they can rest a little more is to be seen. On Thursday, September 4, 2014 11:06 AM, Kutie Thondlana <kutie.thondl...@gmail.com> wrote: MaAfrika, An All Inclusive Consultative Conference may just be our answer. We need a platform to address all the concerns mentioned in circulating emails and come up with a plan that will assist in rebuilding the PAC from then on. I'm sure our enemies operating within the party to destroy PAC are already celebrating success, let us not allow them that glory. We must prevent PAC from being made the ruling party Project. PAC must never die! Izwe Lethu! Kutie On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:38 AM, <sndam...@pac-cape.org.za> wrote: "All these years fighting each other but there is no solution . . . what's wrong with us" - line in Lucky Dube's song The solution is you comrades. . . .lets get into our structures and bring that change. It is expected that there will be those who will try to maintain the current chaos by all means. Folding arms therefore won't help, to complain either so only active engagement to pursue a collective principle will put us in a better place as an organization. iAfrika iAfrika On 2014-09-04 10:14, mrfihla08 wrote: Ma Afrika Izwe Lethu > >I note that name calling and castigation of characters has become such a >profession in the PAC. What surprises me, is that the very individuals such as >Narius Moloto were paraded by some of us who are so vocal today against him. >Narius was appointed by Mphahlele as party builder and Mphahlele's faction was >fully behind him. He was subsequently elected at the Gcuwa circus as Secretary >General. Those who were part of the Gcuwa circus must therefore take the blame >for anything that they are opposing in Moloto today. > >Now, At what point ma Afrika are we going to talk about what can unite us >instead of all this mud slinging and divisive language? We all know that >instead of campaigning during the past elections, we were busy promoting our >factional interests, taking each other to court, making statements in the >media that decampaigned the PAC, and some of us even failed to vote. Today >however we are so good at criticising instead of collectively accepting blame. >Some of us who are talking today were part of Mphahlele's faction that created >divisive parallel structures and expelled some of us from the PAC. Please ma >Afrika let us stop with this childish and reactionary behavior that does not >take us anywhere. All we need now is genuine solutions to the PAC problems. >Factional statements and campaigns will not take us anywhere. For now, Moloto >remains secretary general of the PAC, all the noises we can make against him >will not help. The reality also here is that some of us are not genuine, we are not fighting Moloto because we have the interests of the PAC at heart. We are fighting Moloto because we are pushing factional interests. My proposal is that let us identify those aspects that can help us to unite the PAC instead of engaging in useless muddling. > >Fihla > > >Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. > > > >-------- Original message -------- >From: Mbuyiselo Kantso >Date:04/09/2014 08:41 (GMT+02:00) >To: payco@googlegroups.com, linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za, ad...@pac.org.za, >wgaj...@gmail.com, rammymfulw...@gmail.com, richardma...@yahoo.com, >river.mla...@telkomsa.net, ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za, >takalaniligeg...@gmail.com, tumimod...@hotmail.co.za, tyamza...@yahoo.com, >tnta...@webmail.co.za, isaa...@diplomat-global.com, i...@bataufc.com, >lea...@hotmail.com, phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com, p...@vodamail.co.za, >paccapeme...@webmail.co.za, pasmapresid...@gmail.com, >pactshwanereg...@gmail.com, pacmogalec...@gmail.com, pac.nc...@gmail.com, >phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za, pacaza...@webmail.co.za, s...@pac.org.za, >smollzo...@gmail.com, sndam...@pac-cape.org.za, sbusiso.x...@gmail.com, >dud...@webmail.co.za, digashuma...@gmail.com, dmalo...@klerksdorp.org, >goqwana.san...@gmail.com, hlubi.so...@gmail.com, joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com, >jntab...@gmail.com, kutie.thondl...@gmail.com, 'L Lekgwathi' , >lucasmmol...@gmail.com, znyam...@gmail.com, billiard.s...@gmail.com, bulanng...@gmail.com, bennet_j...@yahoo.com, bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com, ndhlo...@pac.org.za, 'Nakaphala Bauba' , nnyq...@gmail.com, m...@soultalk.co.za, mapulankoan...@gmail.com, mvakalijust...@gmail.com, mbind...@gmail.com, mrfihl...@gmail.com, mphah...@eskom.co.za, malingeplaat...@yahoo.com, mphothobej...@yahoo.com, mokoen...@workmail.co.za, moshemahlom...@gmail.com, monyanepin...@gmail.com, mop...@pac.org.za, mnd...@yahoo.com, po...@yahoo.com, celenjabulo...@gmail.com, njabulo.m...@gmail.com, vu...@telkomsa.net, dumisani...@gmail.com >Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference >Morning Cde. Raymond > >I think it is now clear that up and above the feuding NEC you have an >individual in the form of an S.G who thinks he wilds a wisdom above all >others. By the way you are talking about a so called board room or office >bound NEC which operates somewhere in a building in Joburg which can hardly >pull one revolutionary programme. In terms of the history of the PAC you maybe >sitting with an SG who has performed worse than any other S.G at any given. > >The SG went to several media houses claiming the PAC is ready to govern and >the elections results suggest something else. Any revolutionary leader must be >a person whom when time calls for serious introspection and checks and >balances he does so to assist the party not his/her self righteousness >attitude/mentality. Relying only on a conference which will have bussed and >ghost branches wont assist the party in anyway. Take the Birchwood Conference >I am told there were bussed delegates who never participated in discussions >and some were drinking alcohol as they were there for an outing. > > For me arguing endlessly with this so called NEC powers it is a waste of time > and the lesser we talk about this SG the better it is. The truth is since the > Butterworth Congress the PAC was never in politics and hence its silence in > the political activities of the country. I don't blame the SG because if > people who work with him attend meetings to discuss people and suspensions > and expulsions and then call that progress in the party tough luck for PAC > members and its future. Personally I hate people who like claiming things > that don't exist and for me to suggest the party has developed capacity to > operate behind enemy lines is cheap and weak revolutionary theory to say the > least. > >There is only one lesson we can draw from this post Butterworth NEC and that >is when we approach the leadership issue we must all be sober and be serious >about it. I think the reason why the PAC was successful from its inception it >was mainly due to the facts I raised above and they elected office President >and SG and put the leadership which had what it takes to build a revolutionary >party. It is more than 24 months since we had an NEC but al what we are >consuming is a blame game. I have enough years in PAC to simply see what works >and what wont work. You can have Cde Moloto for the next 100 years there as an >SG all you are going to have is cheap manipulation, disorder, weekly >suspensions and poor performance of PAC at all levels of party operations. In >short it does not matter how right he says things will remain the same. > >Izwe Lethu! > > > > >On Wednesday, September 3, 2014 5:10 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi ><nrkgag...@gmail.com> wrote: > >Izwe lethu M'Afrika > >Comrade Linda, the attached documents, once more confirms the question you >raised. But the task facing all of us, it is to salvage the PAC from complete >obliteration waged by the feuding 'NEC'. > >Founding leaders of PAC are turning in their graves! > >Shango lashu >Nkrumah > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >From: "Admin @ Pac" <ad...@pac.org.za> >Date: 02 Sep 2014 3:44 PM >Subject: attack on party annual conference >To: "Admin @ Pac" <ad...@pac.org.za>, <wgaj...@gmail.com>, < >rammymfulw...@gmail.com>, <richardma...@yahoo.com>, < >river.mla...@telkomsa.net>, <ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za>, < >takalaniligeg...@gmail.com>, <tumimod...@hotmail.co.za>, < >tyamza...@yahoo.com>, <tnta...@webmail.co.za>, <isaa...@diplomat-global.com>, ><i...@bataufc.com>, <lea...@hotmail.com>, <phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com>, < >p...@vodamail.co.za>, "Cape" <paccapeme...@webmail.co.za>, < >pasmapresid...@gmail.com>, <pactshwanereg...@gmail.com>, < >pacmogalec...@gmail.com>, <pac.nc...@gmail.com>, < >phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za>, <pacaza...@webmail.co.za>, "Narius Moloto" < >s...@pac.org.za>, <smollzo...@gmail.com>, <sndam...@pac-cape.org.za>, < >sbusiso.x...@gmail.com>, <dud...@webmail.co.za>, <digashuma...@gmail.com>, >"Delano Maloney" <dmalo...@klerksdorp.org>, <goqwana.san...@gmail.com>, < >hlubi.so...@gmail.com>, <joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com>, <jntab...@gmail.com>, ><kutie.thondl...@gmail.com>, "Lekgathi" <0825164...@vodamail.co.za>, < lucasmmol...@gmail.com>, <znyam...@gmail.com>, <billiard.s...@gmail.com>, < bulanng...@gmail.com>, <bennet_j...@yahoo.com>, "bulelanim1718" < bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com>, <ndhlo...@pac.org.za>, < nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com>, <nnyq...@gmail.com>, "Michael Muendane" < m...@soultalk.co.za>, <mapulankoan...@gmail.com>, <mvakalijust...@gmail.com>, <mbind...@gmail.com>, <mrfihl...@gmail.com>, "Mohlomphegi Mphahlele" < mphah...@eskom.co.za>, <malingeplaat...@yahoo.com>, <mphothobej...@yahoo.com>, <mokoen...@workmail.co.za>, <moshemahlom...@gmail.com>, "Pinkie Monyane" < monyanepin...@gmail.com>, <mop...@pac.org.za>, <mnd...@yahoo.com>, < po...@yahoo.com>, <celenjabulo...@gmail.com> >Cc: <njabulo.m...@gmail.com>, <vu...@telkomsa.net>, < >river.mla...@telkomsa.net>, <tnta...@webmail.co.za> > >Izwe Lethu > > > >Please find the attached for your attention. > >Pass the message to other structure and members. > > > >Regards > >PAC of Azania > >Tel : 011 331 3415/ 14/ 11 > >Fax : 086 527 0380 > >Email : ad...@pac.org.za > >Website: http://www.pac.org.za/ > > > >*A SHORT SAYING OFTEN CONTAINS MUCH WISDOM* > >-- >-- >Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com > >Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > >You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco > >Visit our website at http://www.mayihlome.wordpress.com/ > >--- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Pan >Africanist Youth Congress" group. >To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >email to payco+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco Visit our website at http://www.mayihlome.wordpress.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Pan Africanist Youth Congress" group. 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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Pan Africanist Youth Congress" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to payco+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
