Yes ok but again, Government are only a small part of what Apple are interested in and beating Apple or anyone else with a stick isn't going to bring about good accessible software.
On 08/03/2007, at 6:19 AM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: Hi Dane, Actually, if Apple would like to continue its programs like iTunes University and, for that matter, have iTunes used *anywhere* within education/government here in the USA then, actually, yes, they do "have to" be accessible, otherwise, they're violating at least sections 504 and 508 of our Federal Rehabilitation Act. In this case inaccessibility is technically against the law and could result in losses of millions of dollars in edu/gov contracts. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dane Trethowan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "PC audio discussion list. " <pc-audio@pc-audio.org> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 11:40 AM Subject: Re: Hats Off to Apple > I can tell you that in the case of Itunes this is not true as I know > someone who has confirmed that he is working with Apple to improve > access to the windows version, just because you personally don't get > an acknowledgement from Apple or anyone else doesn't mean your'e > being ignored, that's why I say its very important to make your > feelings known to Apple or whoever and (wherever possible) try to be > positive, remember Apple or anyone else for that matter doesn't have > to do anything so Aplle or anyone else is (without notice) entitled > to tell us all to go and jump if they want to and I fear that too > much bagging of people who write software etc may cause a few to do > just that and this is exactly what we don't need, once again blind > people have to realise that unfortunate as it is, they are a minority > group so we have to pick and choose the path we take carefully. > > Now as far as Apple ignoring blind people for years? that's absolute > twaddle and I can go back 12 years to when I used other Screen > Reading software for my Mac, accessability though limited compared to > what it is today was available in Mac's then and I could run audio > tools then but I'm not going to say any more right now for fear of > getting bobbed down in an off-topic discussion for this list even > though its an interesting one. > On 08/03/2007, at 4:30 AM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: > > Hi Chris and all, > > Anytime we ask for something and the people on the other side > ignore us > completely, as though we do not exist, well, we have a legitimate > gripe with > such people. That's exactly how Apple has treated us, in many cases, > over > the years. I'm glad iTunes is now, finally, accessible. Apple has > finally > made their own iTunes player and store accessible to its very own > screen > reader built into its own operating system for goodness sake. It is > about > time! I'm glad they finally did it, but I'm not sure they necessarily > deserve the Accessibility Achievement of the Year or any similar such > awards > or praise. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Skarstad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "PC audio discussion list. " <pc-audio@pc-audio.org> > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 9:49 AM > Subject: Re: Hats Off to Apple > > >> But see, that's the point, I have written to Apple several times >> requesting that they atempt to make their Windows version of iTunes >> more friendly to screenreader users, and to date I haven't seen much >> action. So, I have gotten to them and requested that some work be >> done. True, most people won't, but I did, and all I got back was a >> big fat nothing in response. >> >> At 10:31 AM 3/7/2007, you wrote: >>> I think that comment to be extremely unfair, Apple put out a Windows >>> version of Itunes for the simple reason that not everyone uses or >>> wants to use a Mac and people have the right to use or not to use >>> what they want and Apple like the rest of us recognises that 90% of >>> computer users out there use Windows so it makes good marketing >>> sense >>> to have Itunes working on a Windows platform. >>> Now something I'm extremely curious about, why is it that people >>> using PC's and Windows like to spend there time whining whilst >>> people >>> using Apple Macs seem to be concentrate on writing constructive >>> letters to people and trying to get accessability issues sorted out >>> <smile>. >>> >>> On 08/03/2007, at 2:55 AM, Chris Skarstad wrote: >>> >>> Here here Jeff, couldn't agree with you more man. I think Apple put >>> out their Windows version of iTunes mainly so that they could say >>> they have a Windows version out, and they could give a crap less >>> about accessibility. >>> Yell and scream about how great it is Mac users, you finally got >>> what >>> you wanted. But I'm going to continue to hold Apple in contempt >>> until they produce a screenreader friendly version of iTunes. >>> When I >>> say "screenreader friendly", I mean a version that does not require >>> the use of scripts or set files to work. Fat chance of that >>> happening...I'll believe it when it happens. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> At 09:24 AM 3/7/2007, you wrote: >>>> The proof is in the pudding. Apple still hasn't gotten Windows >>>> Vista >>>> support done let alone accessibility, so I am sure it is merely a >>>> priority >>>> for the Mac platform more then it is for the Windows platform. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> audio.org] >>>> On Behalf Of Dane Trethowan >>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 7:55 AM >>>> To: PC audio discussion list. >>>> Subject: Re: Hats Off to Apple >>>> >>>> Better accessability for Itunes is being worked on. I'm not making >>>> excuses >>>> for Apple but everything takes time and I'm sure that Windows users >>>> will end >>>> up with a totally accessible version of Itunes before too long, >>>> just be >>>> patient, can't say too much right now. >>>> Why do Apple users make a thing about how accessible Itunes is? >>>> Because quite simply its worth making a thing about, its taken a >>>> while but >>>> Itunes has turned overnight from something which wasn't all that >>>> accessible >>>> at all (more near to totally inaccessible) to something which is >>>> getting to >>>> the point of being near totally accessible so that in itself is >>>> worth making >>>> a thing about plus the fact that all the hard work and all the >>>> correspondence between Apple and Voiceover users finally paid off, >>>> we now >>>> have a commitment on behalf of Apple that further development will >>>> continue >>>> etc. >>>> >>>> On 08/03/2007, at 12:28 AM, Stephen Guerra wrote: >>>> >>>> It appears that those who are using Macs are giving praise to Apple >>>> where I >>>> as a Windows user still as most find that Itunes is still lacking. >>>> >>>> Seems like any hint of an Apple user makes them scream that the >>>> little >>>> tidbit that Apple does is golden, well, its not and they are not, >>>> (meaning >>>> Apple) are Golden Delicious. >>>> >>>> More like rotten Macintosh! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Stephen A. Guerra >>>> Assistive Technology Specialist >>>> Independent Living Aids >>>> >>>> "Products for Your Active Independent Life!" >>>> >>>> 200 Robbins Lane >>>> Jericho, NY 11753 >>>> Phone: (516) 937-1848-x313 >>>> Fax: (516) 937-3906 >>>> >>>> E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> Skype: ILASteve >>>> Web Site: >>>> http://www.independentliving.com >>>> http://www.soundbytes.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> audio.org] >>>> On Behalf Of David Tanner >>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 1:15 AM >>>> To: PC audio discussion list. >>>> Subject: Re: Hats Off to Apple >>>> >>>> Why doesn't that surprise me??? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Chris Skarstad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> To: "PC audio discussion list. " <pc-audio@pc-audio.org> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 2:14 PM >>>> Subject: RE: Hats Off to Apple >>>> >>>> >>>> : Yes, I have tried iTunes 7.1 under windows, I wanted to try to >>>> have >>>> : an open mind and try it, and guess what? It is still just as >>>> : inaccessible as it was previously. So apple is still the lose, at >>>> : least under the windows platform. >>>> : and because Apple has made *absolutely* no efforts whatsoever in >>>> : making the windows version of iTunes more accessible, I can't >>>> support >>>> them. >>>> : >>>> : >>>> : >>>> : >>>> : >>>> : >>>> : >>>> : >>>> : At 01:54 PM 3/6/2007, you wrote: >>>> : >Has anyone tried it with windows >>>> : > >>>> : > >>>> : > >>>> : >Stephen A. Guerra >>>> : >Assistive Technology Specialist >>>> : >Independent Living Aids >>>> : > >>>> : >"Products for Your Active Independent Life!" >>>> : > >>>> : >200 Robbins Lane >>>> : >Jericho, NY 11753 >>>> : >Phone: (516) 937-1848-x313 >>>> : > Fax: (516) 937-3906 >>>> : > >>>> : >E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> : >Skype: ILASteve >>>> : >Web Site: >>>> : >http://www.independentliving.com >>>> : >http://www.soundbytes.com >>>> : > >>>> : > >>>> : >-----Original Message----- >>>> : >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> : >On Behalf Of Dane Trethowan >>>> : >Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 2:38 PM >>>> : >To: PC audio discussion list. >>>> : >Subject: Fwd: Hats Off to Apple >>>> : > >>>> : >Ok, here's the announcement about the new version of Itunes for >>>> Mac. >>>> : > >>>> : > >>>> : >Begin forwarded message: >>>> : > >>>> : > > Apple has truly done what some might consider impossible; on >>>> March 5, >>>> : > > 2007, Apple unveiled a long-awaited update to iTunes with >>>> support for >>>> : > > accessible clients such as VoiceOver. >>>> : > > >>>> : > > This comes nearly 22 months after the release of Mac OS X >>>> 10.4 which >>>> : > > introduced the VoiceOver screen reader. Since VoiceOver's >>>> : > > introduction, the VO user community has been very vocal about >>>> the >>>> : > > desire for an accessible iTunes. Apple has listened and >>>> delivered ... >>>> : > > at long last! >>>> : > > >>>> : > > While iTunes' accessibility is a far cry from perfect, it >>>> does >>>> : > > represent a significant step forward from what was possible >>>> before. >>>> : > > Users can browse their iTunes library, search and preview >>>> songs from >>>> : > > the iTunes Music Store, adjust song ratings, and much, much >>>> more. If >>>> : > > iTunes 7.1 is any indication, then we can expect >>>> improvements to >>>> : > > iTunes accessibility in future releases of the product. >>>> : > > >>>> : > > Everyone who appreciates the work Apple has done to bring >>>> forth the >>>> : > > accessible version of iTunes should E-mail >>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and >>>> : > > thank them for their hard work. Many of us were quick to >>>> bash Apple >>>> : > > for not making iTunes 7 accessible. We should be just as >>>> quick to >>>> : > > express our appreciation for iTunes 7.1. >>>> : > > >>>> : > > To that end, I say, "Hats off!" Now please work on making >>>> the iPod >>>> : > > and the iPhone accessible. >>>> : > >>>> : >Dane Trethowan >>>> : >Phone/TTY +61 3 9747 3975 >>>> : >Fax: +61 3 9743 7954 >>>> : >msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> : >skype: grtdane12 >>>> : > >>>> : > >>>> : > >>>> : >________________________________________________________________ >>>> : >Did you know! This message could have been secured by the TFT >>>> BBS >>>> Digital >>>> : >Security Initiative. 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