Hi Dhruv,

Yes, I think we should standardize this mechanism - allowing PCE to request PCC 
to allocate Association ID and Source.

Thanks,
Mike.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dhruv Dhody <[email protected]> 
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 11:16 AM
To: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]; pce-chairs 
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01

Hi Mike,

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 9:34 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) <[email protected]> 
wrote:
>
> Hi Dhruv,
>
>
>
> Perhaps we can avoid this by letting PCE send PCInitiate message with 
> Association Source set to some reserved value, like 0. This can mean that the 
> PCE is basically requesting the PCC to allocate an Association Source and to 
> “own” that Association. We already do this with the Association ID. PCE sets 
> the ID to 0 in PCInitiate and PCC chooses an Association ID and reports it 
> back.
>
>

The comment was applicable for association-id as well as association-source! 
The use of 0 as association ID is being introduced by your draft and not part 
of the base RFC 8697 and that triggered the original email. Julien and I were 
uncomfortable with that and wanted to understand what is new here for SR policy 
association that requires a new procedure and cant be handled by RFC 8697.

Thanks,
Dhruv

>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike.
>
>
>
> From: Dhruv Dhody <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 10:43 AM
> To: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) <[email protected]>
> Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]; 
> pce-chairs <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Association Source in 
> draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01
>
>
>
> Hi Mike,
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 7:51 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Dhruv,
>
>
>
> Thanks for bringing this up.
>
>
>
> By setting ASSO_SOURCE = PCC_ADDRESS, we guarantee that:
>
> all 3 parties: PCC, PCE1 and PCE2 agree on the same source, AND they 
> agree without talking to each other.
>
>
>
> In your proposal below, if we set ASSO_SOURCE = NMS_ADDRESS, it seems that 
> condition 1 may be fulfilled, but it requires exchange of PCRupt/PCUpd 
> messages between the 3 entities, which violates condition 2. Please correct 
> me if I misunderstood something. In the picture that you drew, you say that 
> “Policy Endpoint=X” and “Association Source=X”, are you suggesting to use the 
> policy endpoint as the ASSO_SOURCE? That would satisfy both conditions, but 
> I’m not sure if you intended that?
>
>
>
>
>
> No, I did not!
>
>
>
>
>
> I believe condition 2 is important to satisfy, because otherwise there could 
> be race conditions where the 3 parties have different ASSOC_SOURCE for the 
> same policy. Consider what happens when all 3 parties try to create the same 
> policy at the same time.
>
>
>
>
>
> The SR-Policy association is "dynamic" in nature, and we need to go by the 
> association parameters we receive from the PCEP peer. Condition 2 of talking 
> to each other is the very nature of a dynamic association!
>
>
>
> If the race condition is the issue to solve, we can use the SR-Policy 
> parameters (color, endpoint, source). And make sure there is only one 
> SR-Policy-association-group with a given set of SR-Policy parameters (and 
> generate an error otherwise). The other PCE would learn about the association 
> and can use it subsequently!
>
>
>
> I’m open to any proposal, but IMO we should respect the above two 
> requirements.
>
>
>
>
>
> I feel the requirement 2 is not compatible with a dynamic association.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Dhruv
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike.
>
>
>
> From: Dhruv Dhody <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 1:59 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: [email protected]; pce-chairs <[email protected]>
> Subject: Association Source in 
> draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01
>
>
>
> Hi Authors,
>
> In 
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-0
> 1#section-4.2,  you state -
>
>    The Association Source MUST be set to the PCC's address.  This
>    applies for both PCC-initiated and PCE-initiated candidate paths.
>    The reasoning for this is that if different PCEs could set their own
>    Association Source, then the candidate paths instantiated by
>    different PCEs would by definition be in different PCEP Associations,
>    which contradicts our requirement that the SR Policy is represented
>    by an Association.
>
>
>
>
>    The Association ID MUST be chosen by the PCC when the SR policy is
>    allocated.  In PCRpt messages from the PCC, the Association ID MUST
>    be set to the unique value that was allocated by the PCC at the time
>    of policy creation.  In PCInit messages from the PCE, the Association
>    ID MUST be set to the reserved value 0, which indicates that the PCE
>    is asking the PCC to choose an ID value.  The PCE MUST NOT send the
>    Extended Association ID TLV in the PCInit messages.
>
>
> But the base RFC 8697 
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8697.html#section-6.1.3 gave quite a bit of 
> leeway while setting the association source.
>
> Consider 2 PCEs - PCE1 & PCE2, I am assuming if candidate paths are created 
> via two different PCEs both will be aware of SR Policy identifiers (color, 
> end-point, etc). When PCE1 initiates CP1, it could use the association source 
> as Virtual-IP or NMS (instead of PCE1). The PCE2 will learn about the 
> association and the corresponding SR policy parameters via the PCRpt message 
> which is sent to both PCEs. So when the PCE2 initiates CP2, it could use the 
> same association!
>
> This was the very reason to include the flexibility in setting the 
> association source in RFC 8697.
>
> Julien and I discussed this and we feel you are trying to solve the issue of 
> sharing an association ID between several PCEs by using a new mean than the 
> one in RFC 8697. If you have other reasons then please state them, otherwise, 
> RFC 8697 should take precedence.
>
> Thanks!
> Dhruv & Julien
>
> PS. I quickly drew a figure if that helps (see attached)!
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 8:42 PM <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element WG of the IETF.
>
>         Title           : PCEP extension to support Segment Routing Policy 
> Candidate Paths
>         Authors         : Mike Koldychev
>                           Siva Sivabalan
>                           Colby Barth
>                           Shuping Peng
>                           Hooman Bidgoli
>         Filename        : draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01.txt
>         Pages           : 20
>         Date            : 2020-10-27
>
> Abstract:
>    This document introduces a mechanism to specify a Segment Routing
>    (SR) policy, as a collection of SR candidate paths.  An SR policy is
>    identified by <headend, color, end-point> tuple.  An SR policy can
>    contain one or more candidate paths where each candidate path is
>    identified in PCEP via an PLSP-ID.  This document proposes extension
>    to PCEP to support association among candidate paths of a given SR
>    policy.  The mechanism proposed in this document is applicable to
>    both MPLS and IPv6 data planes of SR.
>
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy
> -cp/
>
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-0
> 1
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-p
> olicy-cp-01
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-polic
> y-cp-01
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of 
> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at 
> tools.ietf.org.
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
>
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