----- Original Message ----- > From: Lorenzo Sutton <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Cc: > Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 4:13 PM > Subject: Re: [PD] [announce] Integra Live 1.5 released > > On 18/01/13 20:40, Leandro da Mota Damasceno wrote: >> So if we wanted to improve the GUI we would have to drop tcl/tk all >> together or make it messy and heavy? > > Or simply have Pd as the engine and devise funkier GUI stuff outside > which can communicate with Pd, so that one concentrate on the dataflow > (once I said "dsp" and got slapped by Mathieu :) in Pd and on making a > > beutiful gui somewhere else... > > Gripd was a good example of the concept I thik: > http://crca.ucsd.edu/~jsarlo/gripd/ > > I feel more and more this idea of the separation of content and > presentation/interface as I had (sic) to use max since ages I was > avoiding it, and I find the complete mixture of 'guiness' and curviness > makes me dizzy and disctracts me all the time, for example I often whant > to grab patch chords to delete them and some silly pop-up will come out. > It looks like the content + presentation mixture we have with HTML and > still slowly trying to recover.... > > Of course on the GUI side, I'm not sure there a library out there to > support Pd out of the box, that is sliders aren't enough...Maybe JUCE - > http://www.rawmaterialsoftware.com/juce.php
What about qt graphics view? -Jonathan > > Lorenzo. > > >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 5:26 PM, Jonathan Wilkes <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> >________________________________ >> >> > From: Leandro da Mota Damasceno <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> >To: Pierre-Olivier Boulant <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> >Cc: pd-list <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> >Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 12:33 PM >> >Subject: Re: [PD] [announce] Integra Live 1.5 released >> > >> > >> >The GUI is beautiful!!!!! That's Apache Flex? I don't > think we can >> maket tcl/tk look like that on PD, can we? >> >> >> It's not that you can't do that in tk, it's just that tk > will get in >> the way of you doing that at nearly >> every turn. For example, here's the code you'd need to draw a >> gradient on a canvas: >> >> http://wiki.tcl.tk/6100 >> >> Buttons would have to be gifs or bitmaps created in some other >> program (or on the fly with some >> hacky code similar to the gradient stuff), unless you use tcl/tk 8.6 >> in which case you could use >> pngs. You might be able to use the half-implemented tk theming >> engine to get a scrollbar that >> looks like the one in Integra, but you'd probably end up using pngs >> or something for the items in >> the Module Library, or else pull your hair out trying to figure out >> how to get the theme to look >> like that on all platforms when all platforms do _not_ have the same >> building blocks for their >> widgets. For Pd'ers who like the stripped down, 1990s look it is >> serendipitous, because that is >> all they can get without someone doing an inordinate amount of work >> to make it >> look any other way. (Just find a gui made with tk that looks >> anything like Integra.) >> >> But I do have a question about: >> >> >> http://www.integralive.org/ >> >> Specifically, the png accompanying "Turnkey Audio > Processing"-- >> specifically the outputs >> of GranularDelay1 going to the inputs of StereoReverb1. Look >> quickly then answer the >> question: >> Does out1 connect to in1 or in2? >> >> I'm not against bezier curves, but the GUI engine must handle them >> with care or they'll cause >> unnecessary problems. >> >> >> Bezier curves make it more difficult for the user to anticipate >> ambiguous overlaps with cords. >> The user makes connections which are obvious in his/her mind as well >> as obvious when they do >> the physical work with the mouse of connecting each outlet to each >> inlet. (Btw, the user's >> mouse makes a trip between outlet and inlet that is a straight line, >> so the physical action >> no longer correlates with the drawn representation.) Then the mind >> tricks >> him/her into thinking that the GUI diagram must be as clear as the >> mental diagram because >> all the steps leading up to the final result were clear. (This is >> still a problem in Pd, but slightly less >> so because the user is more likely to guess correctly what a >> straight line between a and b looks >> like, and they can consequently anticipate ambiguous overlaps and >> attempt to avoid them before >> making them.) Then the user goes and teaches a class, or runs an >> errand, and comes back to the patch >> but the mental picture is now gone. So he/she recreates the mental >> image from the GUI image, >> which is ambiguous, which requires either more work to remember the >> "real" connection or >> actually manipulating the GUI cord with the mouse to see what really >> connects to what. Requiring >> either type of work breaks with the philosophy of being able to >> deduce what the patch does simply >> by looking at it. (Btw, I'm still not sure whether your cords >> overlap or not.) >> >> >> So cords should try to repel each other in such a situation, or at >> least color themselves differently >> when they do in fact overlap. Otherwise you end up with the >> equivalent of a scheme IDE that >> sometimes matches a closing parenthesis with two "candidate" > opening >> parentheses but doesn't >> indicate which is the actual match. Nobody would tolerate such an >> ambiguity in a text-based >> langauge. We shouldn't in GUIs, either. >> >> -Jonathan >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Pierre-Olivier Boulant >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> > >> >No problem about the report. :) >> >> >> >>I'm here if you need further testing too. Look me up on > IRC >> freenode #dataflow. I'm "pob" over there. >> >> >> >>For what it's worth, the only interaction I have with the > GUI is >> when closing. I can actually click on the buttons of the > "save" pop >> up window. >> >> >> >>Cheers >> >>Pierre-Olivier >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>On 18/01/2013 17:15, Jamie Bullock wrote: >> >> >> >>On 18 Jan 2013, at 15:48, Pierre-Olivier Boulant >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>Hi, >> >>>> >> >>>>It looks very nice indeed. >> >>>> >> >>>>Running the Windows version, I have a problem with the > mouse. >> >>>>I can't interact at all with the GUI. I can click > on the menu >> bar (File Edit View etc.), this much works but that's it. The GUI >> does not respond to any clicks. >> >>>> >> >>>>Windows 7, 64bit OS. >> >>>> >> >>>I'm sorry to hear that. I must admit, we haven't > yet tested on >> 64-bit Windows, so it's possibly to do with that. >> >>> >> >>>I hope you don't mind but I've added your report > to the >> UserVoice forum: >> >>> >> >>> >> > http://integralive.uservoice.com/forums/58883-general/suggestions/3565091-mouse-interaction-not-working-on-64-bit-windows >> >>> >> >>>If you "vote" for the issue, you will get an > automatic >> notification when it is resolved. >> >>> >> >>>Jamie >> >>> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >>[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> mailing list >> >>UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> >> >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> mailing list >> >UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> [email protected] mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> > > > _______________________________________________ > [email protected] mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > _______________________________________________ [email protected] mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
