that's unfortunately not a practical solution either, to buy more hardware. the software already ran on laptops, and several people preferred an app (which is an even worse minefield for a developer).
I think no one should buy apple anyway, but many people do, and my problem is how to get to them. On Sat, 19 Sep 2020 at 11:12, Josh Moore <[email protected]> wrote: > Well what I'm saying is the musicians who don't even know what pd, unix, > or a terminal is might be more warm to just buying an instrument that has > pd inside of it especially in this era of "anti-DAW" electronic music > trends, and music in general where almost any new gear that's had software > out in the sort of depths of experimental hell have had gear issues of the > same thing and get immediately picked up by big magazines. You can buy an > organelle with pd inside of it today. > https://www.engadget.com/2019-11-08-critter-and-guitari-organelle-music-computer-review-jack-of-all-trades.html > Nothing really stops you from doing the same thing. It's not my decision > to do what Apple has done, That is all on them. I i just don't believe you > should be practically forced to pay a company to distribute a free project > on their platform. > > > On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 2:04 AM João Pais <[email protected]> wrote: > >> "my thing" is to make my program available to people who don't know what >> pd, unix, or a terminal is and just want to play their instrument. these >> people have chosen and paid for their hardware to work with, and all those >> arguments are moot for them. I guess I can tell them "more than half of the >> world is wrong and I am right, you all should correct yourself and do as I >> say", but I think it won't take me far. >> >> On Sat, 19 Sep 2020 at 10:47, Josh Moore <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Then pay Apple for the privilege of catering to musicians if that's your >>> thing more than ethics of a company acting worse than Bill Gates and >>> Ballmer era Microsoft combined when it comes to being tone deaf towards the >>> developer community and anti-competitive business practices. There's >>> really not much way around this problem, and they aren't going to change >>> their mind without a court injunction over their antitrust behavior which >>> might be coming sooner rather than later. Even so, you could also build >>> upon Raspberry Pis, Belas, and other types of that kind of platform and >>> sell pre-configured instruments for musicians as well and target modular, >>> and you would make some money from it as well. That ecosystem right now is >>> very healthy. >>> >>> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 1:34 AM João Pais <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Unfortunately that's not applicable in my case. Most musicians use >>>> apple, and telling them all that will be met with a shrug and a "so what"? >>>> >>>> Josh Moore <[email protected]> schrieb am Sa., 19. Sep. 2020, >>>> 07:57: >>>> >>>>> Not sure it's even really worth it. Apple is hostile to open source >>>>> and multi-platform stuff these days and everyone else who isn't them to be >>>>> quite honest. >>>>> >>>>> They want to control graphics (deprecate opengl, don't support vulkan, >>>>> force everyone to use their special API completely incompatible with >>>>> everything else, boot Epic's engine cuz it doesn't want to pay a premium >>>>> conveniently during their push for Arcade and all of this) >>>>> >>>>> They want to control their processors, lock them down, force you to >>>>> pay a hundred bucks a year to access the latest development tools or >>>>> distribute applications, and reject anything they don't like or competes >>>>> with anything they have unless they make more money from you than they >>>>> make >>>>> from their own software. >>>>> >>>>> All anyone needs to do is fork some RTOS *nix microkernel with decent >>>>> support for graphics hardware and nobody has a reason to use that stuff >>>>> anymore unless they want to use Logic. This is basically what Blackmagic >>>>> did for their new hardware, it's all RTLinux as is a lot of the new >>>>> digital >>>>> consoles. But regardless of my gripes with Apple's crappy antics lately >>>>> these things are really something Miller himself needs to take up with >>>>> Apple as they do offer free app store access to universities and they >>>>> might >>>>> be interested in embedding Pdlib in logic environment to compete with >>>>> Ableton. We'd have to get externals merged by Miller for this to work out >>>>> though as since the whole Unreal Engine debacle caused Apple to change >>>>> their ToS requiring each piece of code/app has to be ran through >>>>> their approval process or they'll cut you off of xcode/app store/apple id >>>>> with no recourse. But beyond that it's so much cheaper especially for the >>>>> students this software is aimed at primarily to just stick pd on a RT >>>>> patched linux kernel on a 50 dollar ARM SBC and call it good. >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 8:53 AM João Pais <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi list, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm preparing a package based on Pd work, but I run into annoying >>>>>> problems with recent apple OSs, namely notarization and security. Things >>>>>> seem to work if the user commits to switching off all security protocols, >>>>>> but for people who don't know Pd, they might be squeamish about this. >>>>>> Therefore I wanted to ask a couple of questions to someone who might have >>>>>> experience in distributing pd-based patches. >>>>>> >>>>>> For clarity: the package is a max patch (for both runtime and >>>>>> standalone versions), with the Pd app and patches included in a >>>>>> supporting >>>>>> folder - running with the recent pd~ object. When done properly, the user >>>>>> won't even be aware that pd itself is running. >>>>>> >>>>>> - how can one avoid asking a user to allow safety access to Pd and >>>>>> its externals? And while at that, to the max standalone as well? >>>>>> - I'm myself a windows user, and don't have a mac - I can only get >>>>>> the standalone compiled when a friend grants me access to his computer. >>>>>> Which system do you advise to prepare a package? It works fine in 10.13, >>>>>> from 10.15 seems to be problematic. >>>>>> - I had a look at codesigning a package, but it seems that it's >>>>>> necessary to sign up as an apple developer and pay 100us a year, which >>>>>> I'm >>>>>> not willing to do. The package won't be going to any app store, it's just >>>>>> to distribute as a zip file for computers. Any way to circumvent this? >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>>> jmmmp >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> [email protected] mailing list >>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>>>>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>>> >>>>>
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