ah i see. the roli has keys, but they are mushy definitely not a classic controller.
yes the trend goes towards more expression which is kind of difficult to do (and quite expensive) with a classic keyboard approach. why stop at polyphonic aftertouch when you can have polyphonic pitchbend, and two other parameters? (cutoff and resonance for example) but i get you, if you are used to a traditional keyboard a ROLI (or other modern MPE controller) can be quite a learning curve. as a cheap entry point to test out some of the MPE concepts, try a qunexus controller. > On 4 Oct 2022, at 19:39, Alexandre Torres Porres <[email protected]> wrote: > > The RolI seaboard is not a "classic" controller in the keyboard format. I've > seen many "novel" controllers that have such a thing but are not proper > keyboard controllers, with proper keys, that are hit and then you can press > it further, with polyphony. I don't know of any new one that has such a > proper polyphonic aftertouch. I don't know how the RolI seaboard works, but > it seems it doesn't even have keys right? > > I have a "proper" keyboard, a new one, kinda cheap, with polyphonic > aftertouch, but it is way too thin and the key has very little travel. The > polyphonic aftertouch works by releasing the pressure and then working on it > again, which is a very bogus way... > > In order to try a proper keyboard controller with poliphonic aftertouch and > release velocity I had to buy an old one from the 80s, but I found the keys > to be too heavy, they are piano like and the polyphonic aftertouch requires a > lot of finger strength, so it wasn't really a good one. > > Sometime recently, there was a kickstarter campaign with an old keyboard > manufacturer that was offering DIY kits so people could build their legacy > controller with such controls, but it was a failure as people couldn't really > build it and get it to work, it was a mess, and the product never really came > back. > > cheers > > Em ter., 4 de out. de 2022 às 01:59, Simon Iten <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> escreveu: > Yes but RolI seaboard and linnstrument have polyphonic aftertouch, in fact > they even have three expressive parameters per note. Pressure, X and Y axis. > Since there is only one message per note available (polyphonic aftertouch) in > standard MIDI, MPE was born to allow for polyphonic Pitchbend for example > (each note potentially in different directions and at a different level) > > there is not really anything to implement MPE wise, it is still standard MIDI > messages, general modulation takes places on channel 1 and per note > modulation is done with CC messages that are sent on Channel 2-16, in > accordance to each new note that is played, that also gets a channel from 2 > to 16 assigned in a round robin fashion (or other logic of you prefer). > > And yes, that means your limited to 15 voices. > > So some route objects should work wonders :) > > On Tue, 4 Oct 2022, 01:54 Alexandre Torres Porres, <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > I was talking more about polyphonic aftertouch than rel velocity. > > btw, Pd still needs implementations for MPE right? > > Em seg., 3 de out. de 2022 às 01:42, Simon Iten <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> escreveu: > Roli seaboard, linnstrument. Don't know if those have noteoff velocity, but > they sure have MPE > > On Mon, 3 Oct 2022, 00:39 Alexandre Torres Porres, <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > Em dom., 2 de out. de 2022 às 16:56, Simon Iten <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> escreveu: > there are “plenty” of polyphonic aftertouch controllers on the market, some > of the newer MPE hardware controllers use CC messages for this though. > (https://www.midi.org/midi-articles/midi-polyphonic-expression-mpe > <https://www.midi.org/midi-articles/midi-polyphonic-expression-mpe>). some of > them also have release velocity. > > examples of such controllers please? > > > there are also quite some softsynths that handle release velocity > (https://vital.audio <https://vital.audio/> for a free example), so i would > not exactly say this is that rare. and also it will get more common again i > guess. > > > >> On 1 Oct 2022, at 15:36, Alexandre Torres Porres <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> Cool, but not a 'classic keyboard' controller. I don't know any modern one >> with release velocity, and also with polyphonic aftertouch (at least a >> decent/proper one that is not a pad and actually uses pressure after you >> press the note). >> cheers >> >> Em sex., 30 de set. de 2022 às 17:09, Peter Brinkmann >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> escreveu: >> There's a new controller that uses Note Off velocity in an interesting way >> --- the Artinoise re.corder <https://www.recorderinstruments.com/en/> sends >> Note Off with nonzero velocity between slurred notes. >> >> On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 9:30 AM Alexandre Torres Porres <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> Hi, the ELSE library has [else/note.in <http://note.in/>] and >> [else/note.out] which can handle proper note off messages. There's an object >> in cyclone (and also in MAX, of course) that can do that too, called >> [cyclone/xnotein] and [cyclone/xnoteout]. >> >> The use case of this is very rare as modern controllers don't really send >> note off messages anymore. I bought an old controller from the 80s that can >> do this, cause I'm a nerd and gear slut. >> >> Note Off messages start with channel messages from 128 to 143 (128 being >> channel 1 up to 143 being channel 16) as Dan's test patch points out. You >> can use raw midi input from vanilla to listen to this and get the next two >> values which are MIDI note and release velocity. >> >> I would also like this to be available in vanilla, but, hey, well, there are >> the mentioned externals already and this is quite rare as I pointed out. If >> you need to do it as a pure vanilla application for whatever reason, you can >> create such abstraction with [midiin]. >> >> cheers >> >> Em qui., 29 de set. de 2022 às 19:19, Dan Wilcox <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> escreveu: >> Pd treats noteoff as a noteon with 0 velocity, hence the [stripnote] object, >> etc. >> >> If you want to explicitly handle noteoff, you can look at the midi tester >> patch for working with raw bytes... >> >> 1. Help -> Browser... >> 2. Pure Data / 7.stuff / tools / miditester.pd >> 3. receive [pd channel messages] >> >>> On Sep 27, 2022, at 9:56 PM, [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 17:42:15 +0200 >>> From: Lorenzo Sutton <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [PD] MIDI / STATUS_BYTE / noteOn - noteOff mesage >>> Message-ID: <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> On 26/09/2022 20:43, Maurin Donneaud wrote: >>>> Dear List >>>> >>>> Looking at the MIDI 1.0 documentation : >>>> https://www.midi.org/specifications-old/item/table-2-expanded-messages-list-status-bytes >>>> >>>> <https://www.midi.org/specifications-old/item/table-2-expanded-messages-list-status-bytes> >>>> >>>> I notice that the MIDI NOTES are transmitted over three bytes >>>> ??? byte 1 -> STATUS_BYTE [chan & function] >>>> ??? byte 2 -> DATA_BYTE [note] (0-127) >>>> ??? byte 3 -> DATA_BYTE [velocity] (0-127) >>>> >>>> I'm wandering if Pd have a simple object to extract the noteOn / noteOff >>>> message from the STATUS_BYTE. >>> >>> I think you should be able with [midiin]. >>> >>> Note that as per MIDI spec, 'note off' can be either an explicit 'note >>> off' message also containing a 'release velocity' value or (more common) >>> a note on with velocity equal to zero (for example this is how Pd does a >>> note on/off if you use the [makenote] object. >>> >>> Lorenzo >> >> -------- >> Dan Wilcox >> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika> >> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/> >> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> <https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list> >> _______________________________________________ >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> <https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list> >> _______________________________________________ >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> <https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list> >
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