On Sun, 4 Jan 2004, Tanya Mayer Photography wrote: > Firstly, let me say that this has got to go down as the best response ever > to a thread on PDML. Thank you SO much Chris for your detail and thought > that has gone into this, it must have taken you for EVER. Every point has > been noted and is very much appreciated. I will now try to address what I > can...
Well, it's certainly one of the longest responses, at any rate. :) More thoughts... > So here's my "issue" - this is quite off topic and a bit personal, but > it may explain alot to you... For some reason, that I don't know, I am > extremely hard on myself in many contexts. I am a perfectionist to the > extreme. Honestly, and I say this without exception, I feel EVERY time > that someone offers me money to take their photo, that I am committing > fraud. I look at the work of others, and those that I aspire to be > like, and I see that they have worked for many years to be able to > "achieve" in their art at some level. I *know* just how much I *don't > know* when it comes to photography, and I honestly feel that the only > thing that has apparently led people to believe that I am "good" at it, > is pure luck. Fer gawd's sake, I don't even know how to use a flash > manually, and don't even ask me how the zone system works. Who cares? If you are familiar enough with your equipment that you can get predictable and consistent results with your flash set to TTL, then there's nothing wrong with that. You'll never need the zone system for 35mm photography, so no worries there. I get your point, though. The problem is that you're holding yourself up to some unattainable ideal, and you'll never feel that you've reached it if you keep on doing that. Sometimes you just have to suck it up. I guest-lectured some undergraduate honours seminars while I was doing my Masters, and many of the students were around my own age. Sure, there's a lot of stuff that I don't know, but it doesn't matter at all, because I know enough to be able to answer their questions. I'm no professor, and I probably don't even realize how little I know yet <g>, but I knew enough for that situation. Everyone on this list has a lot to learn about some aspect of photography, and that's natural. You can't postpone becoming a professional until you've learned everything because that will never happen. Let your images speak for themselves. You call them flukes; others would call them instinct, or quick reflexes, or an intuitive connection with your subject. You make your own luck. The better you get, the luckier you'll seem to be. :) > Even at school, I felt like this, and I don't know why it is. I did do > really well at school, in fact I only just missed out on being my high > school Dux by one mark. BUT, again, I feel that this was by pure luck > rather than anything else, cause secretly, I never did feel as smart as > the rest of the "achievers" in my class. My mother contributes alot to > this, I know, and somehow I have to get over it. Yours is a pretty typical response to growing up in a situation where you're made to feel inferior, stupid, etc. I'll stay away from pop psychology, but you need to try to realize that this is a load of bunk. Of course you'll listen to what your mother has to say, but you have to admit that a group of photographers is a much better judge of your photographic talent than your family and friends. > As recently as last week, I had someone say to me "but you can't charge > that much, your mother says that you're not as good as you think you are > and that you've only even owned a camera for a couple of years...". I > live in a small town, and comments like that, well, they hurt, > particularly when I know that they originated from my own mother. Unfortunately, there's nothing much you can do with people like that, other than give them the chance to educate themselves. Let them know that yes, you are charging that much, and yes, people are happy to pay it, and yes, your clients think you're as good as you think you are. :) Invite them to see your work. If they'd rather base their opinion of your talent on what someone says instead of seeing for themselves, they're obviously too stupid to matter. Invite them to judge for themselves, and laugh at them if they won't. You are not responsible for curing their stupidity... that's their problem, not yours. And how long you've owned a camera for has nothing to do with anything. I can show someone how to use a 35mm AF SLR in about 3 minutes. Remember this: a camera is a tool, not an end in itself. It is the tool you are using to express your artistic vision. The hard part--the reason why you're going to charge people a lot of money--is having the artistic vision itself. Any monkey can learn how to operate a camera, but not every person using a camera is using it to convey their artistic vision. I'm doing a lousy job of that myself... you're light-years ahead of me there. You have a very clear concept of the type of photography that you like doing, and you have a very good eye for finding the pose and the moment that express that vision. You use your cameras well, but they are only a tool for making your concepts visible. It's not important what type of tool you use, or how long you've owned it for... it's your vision--your concept--that's important. > I only told her yesterday for the very first time about my calendar > deal, and with regards to it being for SIDS etc. I have held off > telling her as I wanted her to be so proud of me for achieving it (I had > a sister who died of SIDS and thought that my mother would really > appreciate just why it is I am doing it). Anyways, her response, simply > was "well, i suppose you'll think that you are really hot shit now, > won't you?". My response: "You got that right." There's nothing wrong with being confident, and even a little bit cocky. Don't deny yourself the satisfation of enjoying your accomplishments because of the bitterness of others. > Needless to say, she laughed herself silly when I told her about the > Arab wedding in 3 weeks time. She honestly thinks that someone is > taking me for a ride cause (in her words) "why the hell would someone > from the Middle East want YOU at their wedding?" It's crazy, isn't it? :) Sometimes stuff like that just happens. You may not think that you deserve it, but that's irrelevant. The client saw your work and loved it, and that's what counts. Enjoy stuff like this when it happens, because it's incredibly exciting and confidence boosting. When you start to become successful, especially in a small town, there will always be people who try to drag you back down to their level. Don't let their issues become yours. > Basically, I know that I can make people look good in photographs, and I > love to do it. I also love getting to hang out at weddings and all of > the girly stuff that goes with them, and of course, I love working with > babies and kids. However, the crux of it is, I really don't "trust" > myself, and I literally am sick to the stomach until my film comes back > and I see that it is at least ok, if not any better... Maybe, over > time, and with more experience, this will resolve itself. Very likely. As with anything, you'll gain confidence with practice. Nothing unusual about that. > " You may take them for granted, but your client won't. To her, you're > already an expert. It's all in how you present yourself." > > See, that's just the thing though - she *knows* that I am "just starting > out" and i really don't think that she views me so much of an expert as a > cheap way to get pictures on her website.... Although, she did email this > to me after viewing the proofs online: > > " have just had a skim through the studio shots and they are just fantastic. > You have read my thoughts completely ! Thank you for perservering with the > packaging shots as I really think they are effective. I'll ring you over the > weekend and tell you exactly how talented I think you are!" So what if you're just starting out? She's just starting out on her business. Does that mean that she should sell her clothing line at rock-bottom prices because she's new at it? Of course not! Price your work according to its quality, not according to how long you've been doing it for. There are wedding photographers locally who've been in the business for 20 years and still take awful photos. They're lucky if they get $800 for a wedding. Others are pulling in $2000+ per wedding immediately after they start because they have a very good photographic style and the ability to capture it on film. Tell your client to judge you on the quality of your work, not on how long you've been in business for. > "You'd get the same exposure on her website if you charged for the photos as > you would if you didn't." > > Yes, but not if she had not hired me in the first place because I was out of > her budget range... If your clients want quality, they have to pay for it, plain and simple. I'm sure she'd love to get quality work out of you for crappy pay... who wouldn't? You wouldn't believe how many people try to bargain down the price of cameras they're looking to buy because they want one that's out of their price range. If you don't have the money, look at something less expensive. That's a no-brainer. For the most part, you get what you pay for. If you told her that you'd buy some clothes from her, but only if she gave them to you at a fraction of her cost, she'd laugh at you. Why should you value your work any less than she values hers? If you really want to work for her, then it's all about negotiation. Explain to her that her budget is unrealistic, given the number of photos she wants. Present her with options. Say, "For the number and quality of prints that you need, you'll need to spend X number of dollars. If you have to work within a budget of Y dollars, I can provide you with this many prints (a smaller number)." Remind her that she can probably find a photographer to give her more prints for the money, but that they won't be as good as yours. She, too, needs to spend money to make money. If her website photos are unappealing, that's going to have a huge impact on her sales. If she's near broke, and can't afford to pay you a proper fee, see about getting a commission on every sale she makes, or something like that. :) You'll need to clarify, too, what she's allowed to use the photos for. If she wants to be able to use them forever and ever, and put them in all types of documents, flyers, adverts, inserts, webpages, etc., then that's going to cost more than if she wants them for one use only. > "Don't feel that you're ripping people off..." > > But that's just the thing, sometimes I seriously do feel that way... So... people who know nothing about photography tell you that you charge too much. People who know a lot about photography tell you that you charge too little. Seriously... who are you going to believe? <g> > "If clients think that you're charging too much, and you can't convince > them otherwise, then they'll find someone cheaper who won't do as good a > job." > > Yep, but then I won't have *any* business at all... You don't need that type of business. Once you get known as a photographer who prices herself nice and low, you're sunk. If your market is too small, then see about finding a larger one and making the commute to a larger urban center. Find out what other very good photographers charge and price yourself accordingly. If they can find clients, so can you. Ok, I'm off to bed now. I'm sure we'll talk more later. :) chris
