Peter,
Quite right about the LX, which I should not have included in the list.
I'm also wrong about the FAJ lenses, which I had thought were introduced at the time of the MZ-50. However, the MZ-50 was a portent of things to come, and the FAJ lenses were bound to follow.
John
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 03:12:47 -0400, Peter J. Alling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
John Forbes wrote:
Your point about the "new Pentax philosophy" isn't valid. Pentax IS supporting K/M lenses on the *ist D, and arguably they work rather better than they do on the LX, MX, KM and KX.
This is just stupid, the LX is full aperture AE metering. It will give you a suggested reading and then even if your lens doesn't stop down correctly it will still give you the proper exposure. The others are manual mechanical cameras. They offer offer open aperture metering with K & M lenses something that the *ist-d doesn't offer no matter what you do. They will give you incorrect exposures if the lens doesn't stop down, but then you have bigger problems anyway. The statement is illogical on it's face.
You seem to think that these lenses are unusable. They're not. Since buying my *ist D I have actually gone out and bought MORE M lenses (can't find any K ones at a reasonable price in the UK).
I don't think that anyone has said that. You've built a straw man to knock down intentionally or unintentionally. Yes I know that the K mount lenses are usable on the *ist-D, easier to use than m42 lenses on a K body, but the loss of this "minor" compatibility implies something about the future that's disturbing. The people who have been complaining are venting their disappointment, even some who have the camera or plan to buy one are disappointed.
And your screw mount comparison isn't valid either. Screw mount lenses are a pain to use on any K mount camera because the adaptor doesn't stop the lens down. K and M lenses ARE stopped down on the *ist D.
I think you misunderstand. It's not that the m42 lenses are easier to use on a K mount camera, they aren't. For the loss of functionality with the screw mount lenses you gained a rapid lens change capability with K mount lenses. Pentax giveth, Pentax taketh away, but in the current situation Pentax simply taketh away. We and the members of Japanese lists complained, a lot, and Pentax produced a software "update", kludge actually, that allows the use of K/M lenses on the *ist-D, you should thank us.
Pentax didn't drop the aperture ring, in fact the new FA-D macro lenses have aperture rings, you sir are the one who's completely wrong. The MZ-30/50/60 were beginners Kit cameras, pretty much P&S with the capability of changing lenses. Many were disappointed when the found out that the limitations in their nifty new cameras.
And why are you arguing this now? Pentax dropped the aperture ring several years ago, and some film cameras don't work at all with K and M lenses, unlike the *ist D. You're out of date, and blaming the wrong camera. Try the MZ-50, which was introduced in 1997.
I'm arguing now because there have been so many people who have been willfully misunderstanding my and many other's point. I don't know for sure why some others are arguing.
John
On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 08:32:48 -0400, J. C. O'Connell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I don't need to buy or use the camera to see what they are doing sucks. Less support of legacy products with absolutely nothing gained in the process. This is kinda similar to when they switched from screwmount to K-mount. The SM auto aperure and aperture sensing was lost on the newer K bodies but there WAS a great gain, much better, quicker, mounting and unmounting of the new K lenses. But in this case with the istD, with the K/M ignorance there is NO GAIN, it's all LOSS.
Secondly, the second "point" you make is terrible. People who don't want a "non-K/M compatable" camera DON'T BUY IT. Of course the ones who do buy it don't mind and arent going to argue otherwise.
Thirdly I don't think you did read the paragraph below because it isnt a *istD issue commentary. It's the new major pentax philosophy that I am very disappointed in...
JCO
-----Original Message----- From: Paul Stenquist [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 8:05 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: istDs - what a great camera!
Or course I read it. But it's only your opinion, and it's not even based on personal experience. IThe vast majority of Pentax users who've
bought and used the *istD don't agree with you.
On Sep 18, 2004, at 7:58 AM, J. C. O'Connell wrote:
Guess you didn't read this:
JCO wrote: You guys don't seem to understand the implication of abandoning support of K/M lenses with no technical ( and no one has yet proven it
was a cost issue either) reason to do so. They have crossed the line and can longer be trusted to support anything you buy for any time as they may decide whatever they want to do on anything. What if they abandon A series next and when? There is now no limit to the shit they
might pull now. They have never done anything like this before so the sky is the limit for them now.....They were ONCE one of the best brands for compatibility of new products and support of older ones in the process ( A, and F lenses for example). The fact they did not change their mount when AF came out was great, unlike minolta and canon did, but what was the point of abandoning very SIMPLE K/M support now when there is no new lenses or mount changes? NONE except to attempt to sell new lenses that I can see....And if a cheap part removal "saved" costs, where is it in the price? Aint there! I don't think there is any signifigant cost savings in K/M ignorance, that's why the camera is still relatively expensive compared to their rivals.
This K/M aperture ignorance is absurd in a top line camera from them that isn't even price competitive and that absurdity makes me no longer trust them at all..... The sad part is Both the K and the M lenses are better made (longer life) than the "A" series. Support the shit, abandon quality. What a policy. They are now in the disposable camera market. JCO
=======================================================================
= ========================================================= It's not just the simple issue of K/M aperure setting support, it is their all new policy on product support in general that is the real issue for me.....I would not buy ANY new product from them expecting to get long term use out of it any more. JCO
-----Original Message----- From: Paul Stenquist [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 7:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: istDs - what a great camera!
Pentax didn't screw me. I'm very happy with the *ist D. When I bought my first one, I owned only K and M lenses. I was so happy with the way
the *ist D worked with these lenses that I went out and bought a second *istD. I also bought an FA lens and a DA lens, which is exactly
what Pentax had hoped for. Their strategy worked with me and many other Pentax users. In fact, I would guess that at least 60% of those list members who owned six or more Pentax lenses have already purchased the *ist D and many of the others plan to do so. If you don't, Pentax won't give a hoot. Paul On Sep 17, 2004, at 9:09 PM, J. C. O'Connell wrote:
The answer is Pentax is screwing the very people most likely to buy a PENTAX DSLR, those that already had plenty of Pentax lenses. If I was starting from scratch I would go Canon, not pentax. the only reason to go pentax is legacy product support which they arent doing. JCO
-----Original Message----- From: Herb Chong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: istDs - what a great camera!
the answer is self-evident then. you aren't worth it to Pentax.
Herb... ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. C. O'Connell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 11:28 AM Subject: RE: istDs - what a great camera!
Then the aperture sensing cam must be about a dollar part, not ten because many $150 cameras had it.
Secondly, even if the cam made the istD SELL for a $100 more, it would
be well worth it in terms of value added TO ME and would pay for itself on the first good K/M lens it restored full function to.
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